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Cider Digest #1537
Subject: Cider Digest #1537, 3 November 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1537 3 November 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE:Malolactic Cider ("Rich Anderson")
Cider Blends (Max Kitchell)
Encapsulated Yeast (Terry Maloney)
RE: Renovating an Orchard (lotic@juno.com)
H2S aroma after bottling (Jason MacArthur)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE:Malolactic Cider
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:17:22 -0700
Ok Andrew caught me short again and as you know, I am short on the science
and long on opinion. The story goes like this, I have a sharp tank of cider
from last year and rather than use chalk to lower the acidity wanted to use
MLF to lower the acidity. Now the only MLF cider I have ever tasted were
some UK ciders in a very distant past that were lovely. The ones made here
in the US have been a bit over the top. Over the top because the cider
makers added a commercial MLF product and let it run. On one recent product
I tasted, I was told by the cidermaker that malic acid had to be added back
to get a balanced product. Not my style. In short, ML flora never made it
across when the rest of our British ancestors did and the way we sanitize,
our cideries will never be populated with that very gentle micro flora that
you have.
The encapsulated product I was referring to is Promalic from Lallemand and
my thought was that I could control the level of malic acid conversion by
pulling the encapsulated ML sox when appropriate. Needless to say I did not
follow up and do not have any idea if this would produce the flavor profiles
you experience with your natives.
As for the sharp cider, I will blend it in small quantities with my mainline
product. In my mind it is still a good cider, no flaws just a bit sharper
than I would like.
Also I am older that you. :)
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Blends
From: Max Kitchell <maxkitchell1@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:43:02 +1000
Dear Digest Janitor,
Up until now my ciders have been based on apple varieties from my own small
home orchard, principally Pink Lady, Sturmer, Sundowner and Bramley's
Seedling. Some have been successful, others not so.
Next season I may have access to a number of English cider apple varieties,
viz, Stoke Red, Bulmers Norman, Kingston Black, Yarlington Mill, Sweet
Coppin, Breakwells Seedling, Dabinett, Michelin, Somerset Red Streak, Brown
Snout, Improved Foxwhelp, and Browns Apple. I am hopeful that these will add
a whole new dimension to my own local varieties but as I have no experience
in their use I am looking to the Cider Digest subscribers for advice on
which combinations they have had success with.
>From my reading I have a reasonable understanding of the individual
characteristics of these English apples (Ben Watson's book is particularly
helpful in this regard) but what I don't have is an indication of which
blends are likely to yield the best results. So if anyone can pass on their
experiences of blends they were happiest with it will allow me to narrow
down the large number of permutations that would otherwise confront me.
Max Kitchell
Tasmania, Australia
------------------------------
Subject: Encapsulated Yeast
From: Terry Maloney <terry@westcountycider.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:13:02 -0400
Rich wrote:
> It does occur to me that there are encapsulated MLF products that would be
> useful to reduce excess acidity or make some interesting ciders. I am
> tempted but unsure if I want to blend a MFL cider in my standard product,
> the MFL ciders I have had are unique but over-the-top for many consumers.
>> Has anyone worked with them?
We used an encapsulated yeast- Schizosaccharomyces pombe (marketed as
ProMalic by Lallemand)- for the first time this season to increase the
pH in a very acidic cider. A one kg. bag (nearly twice the recommended
dose, but that's another story) was put into 200 gal. of freshly pressed
juice at 62F with a pH of 3.18. Four days later the pH was 3.51 and the
S. pombe removed and primary fermentation started. At the end of the
primary fermentation, another 7 days, the pH was 3.6. There were about
15% S. pombe present in the cider, an organism I have never seen before
in our fermentations. It goes along with Charles McGonegal's
observation in an earlier digest about encapsulated yeast escaping .
The S. pombe, after a couple of days, was put in a second batch of
Redfield with the same results. I was going to do a third,and the yeast
still seemed active, but decided that I really liked acidity in cider.
From what I have gathered, it is usually considered a spoilage organism
capable of producing exceptional off flavors. The idea behind the
encapsulation is that it can easily be removed before that occurs. The
juice at the end of the initial S. pombe fermentation seemed to have a
fruitier taste, which I liked. I am still debating using it again.
- --
Terry Maloney
West County Cider
Colrain, Massachusetts
_www.westcountycider.com
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Renovating an Orchard
From: lotic@juno.com
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:22:19 -0500
Brian,
It sounds as if you will be quite busy this winter with a good, small,
lightweight chainsaw.
Trees that have not been tended for the period you mention (5-10 years)
will require quite the "haircut".
It will be helpful to know what rootstock you have, the spacing between
the trees, and what sort of growth rate you have noticed in the recent
past. Also, there are many pruning methods and philosophies that will
dictate the shape of your trees. If possible, stick with the method that
has been established in your orchard. Of course, after 10-years, it may
not be apparent what that method was.
You can treat your orchard as a single block, and prune it all heavily
this winter. This will mean that your growth and harvest cycle will be
the same throughout the entire orchard. If you are short on time / labor
(and wish to maintain an even harvest), I suggest you divide your orchard
into 2-4 blocks. This will make your job easier, and spread out the
growth / harvest cycle. For most varieties, you can expect fruit to form
on two-year old wood. That should give you an idea on the turn around
between pruning and harvest.
Yes, there are many-many out here (W.Mass.) with experience doing this.
Most, however, are busy doing it themselves. So, it may be difficult to
find (and afford) someone to do it for you.
You have a wonderful selection of cider apples, and you should be able to
make it back...but don't expect a massive paycheck in a single year.
Orchard profits are an investment over time.
There is much to be considered in re-hab-ing an orchard. In brief, I
suggest the following:
1: Go to cider days (Nov. 7+8) and attend the pruning talk. Also,
speak with as many growers as you can that weekend.
2: Pick up a book on pruning. Also, consider speaking with the
folks at OESCO, and Cold Spring Orchard (UMass/Amherst).
3: Drop me a line, I was in the same boat in 2006. I have finally
got control of the pruning now (~25 acres).
4: Get a wood stove. You'll probably be taking off some limbs that
are big enough to burn - yet small enough not to need splitting....and
apple wood burns very well.
Peter
Wendell and Hawley, MA
lotic@juno.com
------------------------------
Subject: H2S aroma after bottling
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:02:59 -0500
Jaime Schier asked about H2S aromas in cider after bottling. I often
find that my ciders go through a sort of "bottle shock" period,
during which time various unpleasant aromas I did not notice prior to
bottling seem to rear their ugly heads, H2S among them. I would say
that, on average, these off-flavors work themselves out in a few months.
I have never known why this is, and it has never really bothered me
since I can consume my cider when it tastes good, so if it needs to
sit on the shelves for a few months well, no problem. However, I
have often wondered why this is- is it related to the minimal
exposure to oxygen the cider receives during the process? Or
contaminated bottling lines?
Sorry Jamie, I'm not much help, but you are not alone!
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End of Cider Digest #1537
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