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Cider Digest #1514
Subject: Cider Digest #1514, 25 June 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1514 25 June 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
postings about equipment buy/sell/trade (Cider Digest)
Early Racking (Duncan Galletly)
Cider Apple Orchards in Normandy (Rob & Mike Miller)
New Trees ("Casey Sayre")
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: postings about equipment buy/sell/trade
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:08:03 -0600 (MDT)
I don't believe the Cider Digest is a suitable place for posting equipment
buy/sell/trade items. It is the intent of the Digest to remain as
non-commercial as is reasonable. Letting it run a flea-market or swap
meet is severely inconsistent with that goal.
Also, I'll admit that allowing the presses-for-sale posting back in CD 1512
was bad judgment on my part, since it would make me start hair-splitting
on how "commercial" a posting is. (He DID ask first, and also asked for
a forum for exchanges. Don't blame he; blame I.)
I agree with Alan Yelvington that cider equipment can be hard to find,
but Bob Capshew gave us a link to an exchange hosted by Day Equipment.
Perhaps other of our readers know of additional exchanges? (And surely
it would help to have sources somewhere other than the US.)
The nature of equipment-for-sale or equipment-wanted is that the request
should be posted somewhere until the need is met, not merely once in a
periodical digest. If the Day Equipment interchange isn't adequate,
would someone who is interested in equipment swaps care to set up a
web page to support it?
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
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Subject: Early Racking
From: Duncan Galletly <duncan.galletly@otago.ac.nz>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:19:47 +1200
Tim Bray Wrote:
My only problem is getting this to happen consistently. I can't figure
out if it's related to sulphite concentration, juice chemistry,
temperature, or some combination. Juice from the same varieties will do
this one year and not the next. One year it happened with my Red-Vein
Crab juice, leaving it a brilliant clear ruby-red; hasn't happened
since.
Thanks Tim, it is intriguing that we have both observed the same
effect with brilliantly red crab apples! Is this an effect of
anthocyanins or something to do with the crabs? The wright's scarlet
did it two years running and last year I was really surprised how
slow the fermentation went and it certainly had residual sweetness
when fermentation stopped, with little condition developing even after
a couple of months. The colour was retained reasonably well
throughout. I read in winemaking that sulphur dioxide is used to
extract soluble anthocyanins from grape skins. It needs to be in a
certain range however, above which it will decolorise the pigment.
Maybe the colour we both were impressed by is a consequence of aqueous
solubilisation of the red pigment in sulphited juice and its
separation from the rapidly clearing crud in the deposits. Maybe this
is a good reason to rack while the colour is separated from the deposit.
Duncan
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Subject: Cider Apple Orchards in Normandy
From: Rob & Mike Miller <ciderguys@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:48:14 -0400
Thanks to everyone (particularly Pat and Tim) who posted here or emailed
me directly with information about cider apple orchards in France. My wife
and I had a wonderful 25th anniversary trip to Paris a few weeks ago and we
took a nice 2 day trip to Normandy. A few observations from the trip that I
thought others might find of interest: the Normandy region is very accessible
by train from Paris. We took the train to Lisieux then rented a car from
there. Unfortunately, Avis was out of GPS systems, and the French don't
seem to have any road number markers, but that just made the trip a bit more
interesting! We drove the countryside on the "Cidre Trail" which includes
16 orchards. We visited several, but found that our poor command of the
language was an impediment to learning much about their cider operations.
We tasted (and purchased) a variety of ciders, some exceptional and some
not so good. I thought the champagne style dry ciders were the best I've
ever tased, while my wife was partial to the blends of calvados and cream.
If you ever get a chance to vistit the area, I'd recommend a stop at the
Dupont cider operation, they had fine ciders and conducted tours in english.
The 4 orchards we visited all had full size trees (I didn't see any
dwarf or semidwarf trees), and they all grazed cattle under the trees.
Sometime in late summer, the cattle are moved out, because the apples are
not picked by hand, but are swept up by machine on several occassions
after dropping. I did not get a chance to see the sweeper; I was told
that it is shared among several orchards and was stored at another site.
I was also surprised to learn that they did not use thinning sprays and
just lived with variations in annual crop size. In fact, given the hilly
terrain at a few of the orchards, I would not be surprised to learn that
they sprayed very little if at all.
We took many stops in Normandy and found that every bistro or pub had a
nice selection of ciders available. This was also true in Paris and a few
other small cities that we visited. I look forward to the day when you
can get this same choices in the U.S.! Anyone interested in more deatils
can contact me off-line.
Rob Miller
------------------------------
Subject: New Trees
From: "Casey Sayre" <csayre2@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:07:24 -0700
I planted 15 bare root cider trees this February to complement my 8 existing
dessert trees planted 6 years ago. I planted the following: 4 Ashmead's
Kernal and 3 Karmign de Sonnevelle that were 2 year old trees; 4 Kingston
Black that were 1 year old and 2 Dabinette and 2 Yarlington Mill that were
whips. That selection was based on availability of cider trees.
We had an extremely wet winter here in Northwestern Oregon and my soil is
not ideal as it has a lot of clay. The whips have done well but 2 of the
Ashemeads Kernal, 2 Kingston Black and 1 Karmign de Sonneville died back to
the point that the only growth is a good looking sucker that I allowed to
grow. The suckers that I let go sprouted above the graft and I rubbed out
others. The suckers are from 12 to 18 inches long now and seem to be
vigorous. I have cut back the dead wood. Can anyone tell me if I will get a
reasonable tree out of these or will I be better off to do a little better
preparation and try again next year with new trees?
I have so appreciated the kindness and patience that many of you very
experienced craft cider makers and professionals have show through your
generous sharing in every issue of the CD (especially from rank novices like
myself). It has certainly been extremely helpful and has greatly encouraged
my enthusiasm for the craft.
Casey Sayre
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End of Cider Digest #1514
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