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Cider Digest #1530
Subject: Cider Digest #1530, 16 September 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1530 16 September 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Good American Commercial Cider? (Maurice Forrester)
Good American Cider (Rich Anderson)
Re: Good Commercial American Cider (Ben Watson)
misidentified cider varieties in US (repeating a plea) (Dick Dunn)
Re: PME availability (Claude Jolicoeur)
PME (Mark Johnson)
cidery water usage (Scott Heath)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Good American Commercial Cider?
From: Maurice Forrester <maurice@bryzoan.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:57:15 -0400
> Does anyone know of good American commerical cider?
I'm still fairly new to cider but I like
Bellwether from the Finger Lakes region of NY:
http://www.cidery.com/
Most of their products come in at about 6.9%
so a little higher than your preference but
still much less than an apple wine. I really
like their Heritage.
- --
Maurice Forrester
maurice@bryzoan.com
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Subject: Good American Cider
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:37:37 -0700
There are a number of good American ciders, however being small, most of
them are distributed at a regional or local level. Dave White has perhaps
the best map of these producers, you can find his map at
http://oldtimecider.com/. And perhaps some of the digesters can help fill in
the blanks.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Good Commercial American Cider
From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:46:04 -0400
Hal Smith opens the jaws of another beartrap for the unwary when he asks the
CD faithful for US commercial cider recommendations. But at the risk of
being the first one gored, I'll put my foot in.
Hal, it depends very much on what you like (if you know what that is).
That's not a snotty or supercilious comment on my part; different people
have different tastes in cider, just as in wine or anything else.
The ideal way to self-educate, in my opinion, is to go someplace where there
are a lot of ciders on offer in all styles, from various producers. The
original of these tasting venues is at Cider Days in western Mass., held the
first weekend in November every year (www.ciderday.org). Another one, taking
place this next weekend (Sept. 12-13) is the 2-year-old Great Lakes Cider &
Perry Festival, which is where I'll be hanging out -- over 30 producers are
sending cider to that. And there are a couple of festivals out in the
Pacific Northwest -- one on Vashon Island, which is held annually, and a new
one I'm hearing about that Jim Koan from Wandering Aengus Ciderworks in
Oregon is helping to mount. I don't have details on either one of these at
my fingertips.
Anyway, rather than ticking off a list of my favorite ciders (and ticking
off the people I forget to mention), my advice is to travel to one of these
events, try the range of ciders, from semi-sweet to bone dry, still to
sparkling, and see what kind of profile you're most fond of.
I'm not a great fan of Harpoon Cider myself, though I respect the fact that
they are using actual apples (mostly McIntosh, though, which doesn't make a
stellar single-variety cider) from actual New England orchards. To my
tastebuds it tastes very watery and insipid and a little sour.
As for your cider producer in Pennsylvania, I think you're probably thinking
of Stoney Acres Winery, on PA Route 93 in Nescopeck. They make a couple of
ciders, including I believe a Golden Russet single-variety one.
Happy tippling,
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: misidentified cider varieties in US (repeating a plea)
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:25:40 -0600
Is there anyone working on identifying the common mis-identified cider
apples in the US? By that I mean, varieties sold in the US under names
which are clearly wrong. Two examples (but -not- the only two, alas)
which come to mind are:
"Foxwhelp" - name for an English cider apple, actually a collection of
similar/related varieties, but what we've seen in the US is nothing like
it. Ciderfolk have given it the name "Fauxwhelp" (wish I knew who first
came up with that! clever!), but that just doesn't help much. For one,
it only really declares what it -isn't-; for another the pun is only
written, so I end up babbling as I'm trying to explain what it -is-.
"Tremlett's Bitter" - again, name for an English apple, and what's sold
in the US under this name is nothing of the sort. Our not-a-TB looks
similar, and is quite bitter (hard tannin), but it's a bittersharp
whereas the true TB is a bittersweet.
It's probably my physical-science background that makes me want so much
more precision and clarity than I can actually expect...but I really
would like proper names for at least these two. DNA analysis could sort
it if there -were- a named variety to which these could be tied.
(Another that occurs to me now is what has been sold in the US as
"Herefordshire Redstreak" which is certainly misidentified. I had
thought for some time that the US variety was actually Somerset Redstreak,
but I don't even buy that substitution any more.)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: PME availability
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:44:45 -0400
In Cider Digest #1529, 8 September 2009
>Subject: Re: PME availability
>From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
>For pity's sake, will someone (someone with more time on his/her hands than
>I have right now) contact Crosby and Baker and get them to start packaging
>small bottles of PME?
>
For my part, I contacted Laboratoires Standa in Normandy (France) who
commercialise the Klercidre (which is the same as PME). See (in French)
http://www.standa-fr.com/a-propos/sanico/
I asked them if they had a distributor in America or if they could ship to
this continent. This was about a week ago. I still didn't get an answer. I
will let the Digest know if I get one!
Claude Jolicoeur
Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: PME
From: "Mark Johnson" <friendlypool@astound.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:27:53 -0700
Hello all. I forgot what PME stands for. Also who makes it> I may be able
to have it repackaged by a home brew supplier I know.
Mark "Ciderman" Johnson
------------------------------
Subject: cidery water usage
From: Scott Heath <scott@fireballfarm.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:47:17 -0600
All,
Is there anyone out there making hard cider on a large scale
(200-3000 gallons, say) who has measured the water they use for
washing and cleaning? Can it be expressed in gallons of water per
gallon of finished product? We are in the process of applying for a
"small wine growers" license here in New Mexico to produce cider and
our local water system requires us to present a pretty specific
estimate of additional water usage. We have friends operating
wineries nearby but they have not measured their water use as they
have private wells. Any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott H.
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End of Cider Digest #1530
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