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Cider Digest #1483
Subject: Cider Digest #1483, 23 January 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1483 23 January 2009
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1482, 16 January 2009 (Claude Jolicoeur)
First Post and Question ("Frank Stevens")
Winter Pruning (Alan Yelvington)
Testing for MLF (Jason MacArthur)
Element Levels (Jason MacArthur)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1482, 16 January 2009
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:02:43 -0500
3 posts in the last Digest...
First, from Thom:
>Subject: A few simple questions
>From: "Thom Mitchell" <thommitch@gmail.com>
>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:48:18 -0500
>
>Anyway enough about my initial efforts. While I can acquire unpasteurized
>cider in the fall and can even get custom blends crushed, the only cider I
>can acquire now or in the spring is UV pasteurized. How do other people
>handle UV pasteurized cider? Right now I'm planning on using champagne yeast
>for one gallon, ale yeast for another gallon.
Thom, personnally, I don't see the point in using ale yeast... Champagne
yeast is fine, and for the second batch, you could try a true cider yeast.
Or maybe a Riesling yeast which I hear is interesting for leaving some
residual sweetness - I intend to try it next year. On pasteurisation, I
can't comment.
>BTW, thank you Claude for your detailed description of your award winning
>cider. I can't wait to start a batch of Cortland cider next fall.
Thanks for your appreciation...
Second, from Jesse:
>Subject: Decantian Dilemma
>From: "Jesse Rutschman" <jrutschman@gmail.com>
>Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:12:22 -0600
Jesse, it is very hard to help you in your Decantian dilemna as most of
your questions would need the knowledge of the specific gravity in order to
be able to have an idea of how things are going, and at which speed... The
mere observation of bubbles is not sufficient!
and, third, from Casey:
>Subject: Am I stuck or just impatient?
>From: "Casey Sayre" <csayre2@comcast.net>
>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:56:54 -0800
>
>I ended with about 7 gal of juice (two gal of which were enjoyed by all of
>us over thanksgiving; ok I'm impatient). .... I
>immediately racked the must off the slime, added 50ppm bisulfite and a
>pectolytic enzyme. I waited 24 hours then pitched English Cider Yeast
>(WLP775). Using narrow range ph strips (Accuvin, LLC out of Corvallis, OR)
>the must had a ph of 3.3 or 3.4 as the strip is a little tough to be
>certain, but it gave a good idea. Acidity was .6% (Brewcraft acid test kit)
>and the SG started at 1.059 on 10/29. The must was quite clear and a nice
>amber color. I immediately placed an air-lock as I was/am a little paranoid
>about turning my precious beverage into vinegar. The fermentation began
>about 48 hours later & moved right along bubbling CO2 out the lock. There
>was never any wild and crazy thing as all the gas exited the air-lock even
>though the plug was just loosely set in place. The SG dropped 0.001 every 2
>to 2 1/2 days; kind of slow with respect to what I've read. By 11/12 the SG
>had moved nicely down to 1.008. I immediately panicked as I just had to get
>my cider off the nasty lees and I racked the cider (but the process was
>fun). I had to top it off at this point to avoid the evil acetobacter bug
>and I added a "10%" sugar solution. This bumped the SG back up to 1.024. It
>has slowly worked back down to 1.017 as of 01/05. There are small bubbles
>coalesced at the edge of the must where it meets the glass and a few bubble
>islands, but it really doesn't look like there is anything going on and I
>have seen no gas to speak of exiting the air-lock.
Casey, this seems like a very interesting cider blend. The numbers for SG
and acidity look good. I would not worry about your fermentation speed -
.002 to .003 drop per week is not that slow and is actually quite close to
what I get at the beginning of the fermentation - naturally, this speed
will decrease as fermentation progress and as winter sets in and the
fermentation room gets colder. In January and February, when my room
temperature is about 48F, I find it normal to have a fermentation drop
speed of 10 to 20 days for a drop of .001. It often picks up a bit by April
as the room gets a little warmer.
>The question is, what's the best way to get there (SG 1.005 or below) from
>here (SG 1.017 or so)?
My suggestion would be to let it do its thing until spring. Then, if stuck,
you could add a bit of nutrient. I am doing experiments these days on the
amount of nutrient required for a wanted SG drop. Preliminary results
indicate that 1/8 teaspoon in a 5 gallon carboy would provoke approximately
a .010 drop of SG from a stucked fermentation. This number remains to be
confirmed from more experimentation. If you go this route, please post your
results! Note that this dosage is 40 times less that the recommended dosage
of the nutrient I use (they say 1 tsp per gallon).
Claude Jolicoeur
Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: First Post and Question
From: "Frank Stevens" <moose49017@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:54:51 -0500
Hello to the List. My name is Frank Stevens and I live in Battle Creek MI,
USA
I just started making cider this fall but I jumped right in up to my ears.
Read all that I could and have been lurking here for a bit.
Pressed about 75 gal. of Apple Cider and 21 gal. of Pear with borrowed
equipment this fall. The apples were a mix of 35 different kinds, almost all
old farmstead orchards and wild apple crabs escaped along fencerows that I
searched out. I even have one I believe might be a true cider apple.
My question today is about choosing an apple variety to plant here at my
property. We have 3 1/2 acres in an L shape, somewhat in the country. The
house, buildings and a small patch of woods leaves maybe 2 acres. Lawn other
trees and a garden eat up some more. But there are some spots to stick in
some trees. We are considered Zone 5 for the USA.
Michigan is I believe number 4 in our country for growing apples. And my
success just banging on doors and asking has convinced me that I could get
all the apples I want for free.
But I still want to have some trees of my own. So I can pick them at their
best and for the fun and convenience. I plan on a mixture that would balance
with what I can source from my neighbors or local orchards.
We like to dry apples and make sauce...bake an occasional pie and have now
added cider to the list. We also like to eat them fresh and like a tart,
sprightly, flavorful apple. So I thought selected heritage trees known for
there multi-use traits that would go along with what I mentioned above would
serve us well. Some trees selected just for their tannins and aromatic
contributions to cider and we would be about set.
I thought I would focus my first planting on a tree or two for just cider
that I can't easily get, maybe even a so-called spitter.
I would like to hear from the list on some of your favorites or suggestions.
I'll take into consideration my area when I choose but would still like to
hear your fav's even if it might not grow in my area. Suggestions for
rootstock choices and whether you like standards, semi dwarfs etc and why
would also be appreciated. But just that you think it's a must have for
cider is ok too.
Kingston Black, Dabinett and Foxwhelp have been considered. I know some
people really like Tremlitts Bitter but I hear it can be a difficult tree.
Anyone with that experience? Any fans of Yarlington Mill?
What would you plant this spring for your cider?
Frank
------------------------------
Subject: Winter Pruning
From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:14:33 -0500
I recently started to prune some "wild" apple trees on my property:
http://www.new.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2014671&l=454a7&id=1081556789
It was +5F out (-14C) and my hands were frozen trying to work with the
pruning tools wearing regular work gloves. Also, one tool with a
plastic handle snapped because the plastic was too cold.
Can anyone recommend tools available in the US that are designed for use
wearing heavy gloves, and from materials that do not become brittle at
sub-freezing temperatures?
Many thanks,
Al Yelvington
Russell, PA USA
------------------------------
Subject: Testing for MLF
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:10:57 -0500
I have recently become interested in the ability to test for the
presence of an ongoing MLF. It seems that there are a number of ways
to do this- chromatography kits, testing for lactic or malic acid
levels, or testing Total Acidity. In the experience of anyone who
has tried these, does one method work better than another? Is one
more sensitive than another? It seems that the kits for testing
Lactic or Malic acid levels would be the most expensive route, but
perhaps the simplest. Any advice would be appreciated,
Jason MacArthur
------------------------------
Subject: Element Levels
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:37:09 -0500
I recently submitted a cider to Cornell University Labs for testing,
as I was concerned about aluminum levels in two batches of cider. I
recently received the results of a "Total Dissolved Analytes" test,
and thought I would reveal them here, as they are sort of
interesting. All results are concentrations of elements expressed in
mg/kg. Two results are listed when there is significant variance
between the two batches, otherwise I have listed a rough middle ground.
Al - 13
P-165, 224
S-67, 102
Co-.25
Na-11.70
Mg-41, 59
K-1052, 1334
Ca-12, 22
Zn-116, 130
Ba- .28,.12
Useful? Maybe not, but interesting.
Jason MacArthur
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1483
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