Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1427
Subject: Cider Digest #1427, 15 December 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1427 15 December 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Oak ("John B. Biggins")
Re: Cider economics ("Mike Faul")
Redfleshed apple cider (Charles Mcgonegal)
Redfleshed apple cider ("Terry Maloney")
Some thoughts about 2007 GLOWS Results (Claude Jolicoeur)
RE: Redfleshed apple cider (Tim Bray)
Re: Redfleshed apple cider (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Cider Digest #1426, 11 December 2007 (Bill Rhyne)
Pasteurizing ("Margevicius, Joe")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Oak
From: "John B. Biggins" <jbbiggins@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:50:17 -0500
I've used French Oak on a lambic cider. A little goes a long way!
I used 1/2# for 5 gals & it was quite strong ~ so much that I used
the chips upon racking to prime a second ferment & and then third.
All have pronounced Oak, yet fading from batch 1 to 3, obviously (#3
stayed on oak for ~ 6 months to get out to get out the last bits of
oakiness).
If there are any Catholics in the thread, the smell of cider on
French Oak (med. toast) is reminiscent of alter incense. Really!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider economics
From: "Mike Faul" <mfauL@faul.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:59:01 -0800
Dick et al,
Apple juice prices keep going up, the prices for concentrate are going up
even more. In fact the availability of concentrate in the market is lacking.
So much in fact that availability is a huge concern and most if not all of
the commercial suppliers are drying up. There are plans in the apple
concentrate market to start mass importation of concentrate from China.
I'm lucky in that I have a good friend who sells me juice. I pay a premium
price for it per gallon, but then I don't have to deal with the pulp,
pressing etc.
I wish I could get apples for .05/lb
Mike
>Subject: cider economics?
>From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:46:00 -0700
>More than that, it seems like the six-pack market is one where quantity
>rules, and that's a bad sign for the new/small entrant. What I mean is
>first the bottle, label, distribution overhead as above. But it's more
>than that...the six-pack majors don't feel any need to make a full-juice
>cider. If you're using full juice, and they only use 30% juice (a common
>number), how you gonna compete? You can't compete much on quality, because
>that market is controlled almost entirely by price-point.
>- --
>Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Redfleshed apple cider
From: Charles Mcgonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:21:34 -0600
Eric Hambly at Siloam asked about experience using redfleshed fruit.
I use several red fleshed cultivars in a cyser. The juice starts
cherry red, but finishes a light orange blush at the end of
fermentation. That color seems pretty stable (more than 3 years)
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Elegant Hard Cider and Orchard Wines
>>Sent from my iPhone<<
------------------------------
Subject: Redfleshed apple cider
From: "Terry Maloney" <terry@westcountycider.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:24:06 -0500
We have been using a redfleshed variety- Redfield- developed at the
NYSAES at Geneva and released in the 1940's. Its an easy tree to grow,
highly productive and makes a lovely cider with a pink hue. Its very
acid and we have been only rarely able to get a decent ml fermentation
going. Most amazing is the deep crimson color of the flesh. We had
some trouble with color initially- it would fade with SO2 additions and
occasionally fresh juice from some varieties- but not with browning in
the bottle.
Terry Maloney
West County Cider
Colrain, Massachusetts
www.westcountycider.com
------------------------------
Subject: Some thoughts about 2007 GLOWS Results
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:09:06 -0500
When I got to see the official report of the results of the 2007 GLOWS
competition, I could read:
>Over 140 entries were submitted in the two divisions, Commercial and
>Noncommercial.
And, a little further:
>Entries were submitted literally from coast to coast to include 14 states
>and Canada.
And then, the Gold medal awards:
>In the noncommercial division, eleven gold medals were awarded.
>Gold Scott Janeczek, Milan, MI Cyser
>Gold Jeff Carlson, Grand Rapids, MI Westside Cyser
>Gold Mike Bossory, Manchester, MI Open Category Mead
>Gold Jeff Carlson, Grand Rapids, MI Traditional Cider
>Gold John Applegarth, Grand Rapids, MI Traditional Cider
>Gold Jeff Carlson, Grand Rapids, MI English Cider
>Gold Jeff Carlson, Grand Rapids, MI English Cider
>Gold Scott Husted, Kalamazoo, MI French Cider
>Gold Eric Fouch, Caledonia, MI Traditional Perry
>Gold Eric Fouch, Caledonia, MI Fruit Cider (Mulberry)
>Gold Eric Fouch, Caledonia, MI Pommeau
It rapidly struck me that 11 out of 11 gold medals were from MI... Strange
I thought.
A little further again I could see:
>A complete list of the all the winners is available at
>www.michiganbeerguide.com
So I went to have a look at the complete list of winners. What I saw there
really astounded me.
In the non-commercial division, a total of 75 awards were given. I counted
them! Here is the exact repartition:
MI: 56 awards
NY: 7 (G.Awdey)
WI: 3 (Burrier, Olsen & Matt)
TX: 3 (J.Jurgensen)
VT: 3 (T.Bradshaw)
IL: 1 (F.S.Jones)
NH: 1 (B.Watson)
and 1 from Canada ... my own.
I don't know if you agree with me, but this really looks like a Michigan
inside thing with 7 outsiders, many of them being readers and contributors
to this digest... The statement "Entries were submitted literally from
coast to coast to include 14 states and Canada" seems a bit far fetched in
my opinion, although it is effectively true...
In the commercial division, the awards are more spreaded however, but there
still is a majority from MI. The repartition is:
MI: 14; WI: 5; CA and WA: 4; OR and CT:3; and 1 each for NY, VA, CO and MA.
For a total of 37 awards in the commercial division. It should be noted,
also, that all commercial gold medals are from outside MI.
The combined total of awards is 112. So, taking the statement that "Over
140 entries were submitted in the two divisions", there would remain about
30 entries that did not get an award.
Comments anybody???
Claude Jolicoeur
P.S. My sincere congratulations to the 2 winners of the "Best of Show",
Drew Zimmerman for his Burro Loco which I had the pleasure of tasting at
last CiderDay, and Jeff Carlson.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Redfleshed apple cider
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:46:22 -0800
Eric asked about cider from red-fleshed apples. I've made cider
(accidentally) from Red-Vein Crab juice (the finest-tasting fresh apple
juice I've ever experienced). RVC produces ruby-red juice. The
resulting cider was... ruby red! No browning, only a little paler
color, brilliantly clear. Undrinkably acidic and tannic. :(
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Redfleshed apple cider
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:23:02 -0500
In Cider Digest #1426, 11 December 2007:
>Subject: Redfleshed apple cider
>From: "Siloam Orchards" <mail@siloamorchards.com>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:36:28 -0500
>
>Wondering if anyone has experience in producing a red or rose cider from
>redfleshed apples. I have read that the color turns an unsightly brown
>in the bottle.
>Eric Hambly, Siloam Orchards, Uxbridge Ontario
Eric,
I have had some discussion in writing some time ago with Fred Janson on
this subject. He also had seen juice turn rather orange in colour, and he
did not have much hope for cider.
I guess you already know that Fred did some breeding for redflesh apples
and introduced a couple of varieties, of which he gave me grafting wood.
My own opinion is that I yet never have seen a redflesh apple of which I
thought could have some cider potential. Fred's Glowing Heart is much too
early to be of any use, while others that I have seen or tested like Geneva
are much too acidic and do not contain enough sugar. They can be used in a
mixture, but then the colour is too faint to be of any use. And a cider
made of 100% redflesh apples would have some colour, but I am afraid it
would not be very good.
The 2 juice testings I did with Geneva had a S.G. of 1.046 and 1.047, with
titrable acidity of 1.25% as tartaric. Juice colour was nice and red, but
not very good to drink because of the acidity. It also seems there is an
important tannin content that shows on the tasting buds. The other redflesh
varieties that I have seen and tasted were similar. If these apples were
not redflesh apples I would not even think of using them for making cider...
Maybe you know of some other redflesh varieties that would be more
appropriate for cider? What we would need is a redflesh sweet or
bittersweet, with very high S.G. to make some blends.
However, there is Cidrerie Michel Jodoin in Rougement that makes a "Cidre
leger rose mousseux" which he claims is made from 100% Geneva apples, and
has a peach-rose colour. I remember meeting Michel Jodoin about 15 years
ago, and he told me at the time that he was working on this. I haven't
tasted the cider and I don't have a clue of that he does to it to make it
palatable.
Here is his web site: http://www.cidrerie-michel-jodoin.qc.ca/
Claude Jolicoeur
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1426, 11 December 2007
From: Bill Rhyne <bill_rhyne@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:44:15 -0800 (PST)
Re:Redfleshed apple cider : wondering if anyone has experience in producing
a red or rose cider ,Eric Hambly, Siloam Orchards, Uxbridge Ontario
We fermented small batches of Yarlington Mill and Nehou apples that
we bought from Terry Harrison's Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery before he
retired. They are both classified as bittersweets. After juicing, the
juice looked very dark brown. After keeving, racking, and fermenting. The
Yarlington Mill cider looked like brewed Lipton tea and the Nehou had a
raspberry color. We blended it into our Gravenstein cider base, which has
a light straw color. To say the least, it was an interesting looking cider
and the flavor was more complex.
Other apple notes: I heard on the radio yesterday that due to the rise
in the economies of Russia and other emerging economies, the demand for
apple juice is up this year. Last year, farmers were getting $40 per ton
and this year they are getting $180-200 per ton. Good news for apple farmers!
Bill Rhyne
------------------------------
Subject: Pasteurizing
From: "Margevicius, Joe" <jmargevicius@walbridge.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:15:06 -0500
Has anyone pasteurized their cider by running the newly filled bottles
through the hot water rinse cycle of the kitchen dishwasher? What about
the dry cycle?
How did it work?
Joseph R. Margevicius, P.E.
Vice President and General Manager, Belding Walbridge
Detroit Office: (313) 442-1245
Aurora Office: (630) 906-6860
Cell: (630) 417-7530
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1427
*************************
