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Cider Digest #1449
Subject: Cider Digest #1449, 21 May 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1449 21 May 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Normandy trip recommendations? (Ben Watson)
bittenfelder ("verlindetaal")
Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008 (Lee Passey)
Regular or SS taps for cider kegs? (Dick Dunn)
Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008 (Roy Bailey)
"Bittenfelder Saemling" (hvschablowsky@gmx.net)
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Subject: Re: Normandy trip recommendations?
From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 07:49:51 -0400
Pat Maloney wrote:
We will also be going to the Cider Museum and Eau-de-vie/Calvados Museum in
Volognes (http://www.mairie-valognes.fr/uk/museums.html) Are there any
other "must-visit" places that anyone can recommend?
You might want to check out Christian Drouin's website
(www.coeur-de-lion.com). Drouin is one of the better-known estate cideries
and Calvados makers, and they are located in Coudray-Rabut. They have two
main brand lines --Coeur de Lion (which we can't buy in NH), and Marquis de
Saint-Loup. I've sampled some of their old vintage Calvados, which is quite
variable and interesting, depending on what year you're tasting. I also lik=
e
Drouin's ciders -- much better in fact than most other Normandy cidres that
I've been able to try in the US (even the ones without breakage and
unsightly scale). The Calvados is the main export item, but I think the
cidre is available in some states at least -- last I knew somebody was
representing it in Mass.
Anyway, check it out. They do offer tours during the summer, and Christian
told me a couple of years ago that he personally samples every Calvados
barrel in the cellar during July and August -- I asked him how many samples
that meant, and he said, "Oh, around 40 a day." Nice work if you can get it=
.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: bittenfelder
From: "verlindetaal" <djtaal@planet.nl>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:19:24 +0200
According to Jack's question about Bittenfelder.
For quite some years I graft on rootstock bittenfelder samling for a
standard type of tree. It grows less strong as antonovka.To my observations
there is less cancer in varieties prone to get it.
Furthermore -and most significant- the developement of roots is better
than on most other rootstocks. Only this winter I grafted Bittenfelder
scions from the adress at the bottom.
Next year I will graft on m27 to speed up the production of seed.
I am going to grow it to harvest my own "organic grown'' rootstock material
from the pips and probably good cider. And according to my sources i.e.
W.Votteler : 'verzeichnis der apfel- und birnensorten' it is one of the best
'most' varieties in Germany.
Vintage quality (to the german taste which is not in for high tannins),
but 2 disadvantages 1 It takes many years to come in production 2 it needs
good growing conditions to be productive.
Dirk Taal
djtaal@planet.nl
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008
From: Lee Passey <lee@novomail.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:44:41 -0600
Pat Maloney wrote:
> We will be traveling to Normandy for two weeks in mid-June. While my wife
> works at a conference in Cabourg on the coast, I get to drive around the
> countryside visiting cideries! So far I am planning to visit the Domain
> D'Apreval Distillery near Honfleur and the Viard Cidery outside Bayeaux.
> These are fairly substantial operations, it seems, so I was wondering if
> anyone has suggestions for smaller, more personal experiences. Any place
> where English is spoken is most appreciated!
>
> We will also be going to the Cider Museum and Eau-de-vie/Calvados Museum in
> Volognes (http://www.mairie-valognes.fr/uk/museums.html) Are there any
> other "must-visit" places that anyone can recommend?
>
> Cheers!
> Pat
We are leaving for France a week from Sunday. While in Normandy we will
be staying at the Bed and Breakfast "La ferme du Clos Tassin" next to
Omaha beach (http://titu.club.fr/clostassin/eng_index.html), which bills
itself as a producer of cider, pommeau and Calvados. Also close to there
in Formigny there is "La Ferme du Lavoir" which also produces cider.
pommeau and Calvados (http://fermedulavoir.free.fr/). I can't say that
either of these places are "must-visit", but I'm sure they are both
excellent examples of local cider producers.
I have no idea of the quality of their English, as I have always
communicated with them in French, but I note that M. Gaillot at La Ferme
du Lavoir also offers tours of the D-Day landing beaches, so I'd bet his
English is quite good.
We return from France on June 8, so I don't know if we'll be back before
you leave. If I get online while there I'll post anything else I learn
while I'm there about cider production in Normandy; otherwise maybe I'll
post a mini-"trip report" upon our return.
Bon voyage!
------------------------------
Subject: Regular or SS taps for cider kegs?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 02:06:45 -0600
Tim Bray <tbray@wildblue.net> asked:
...
> ...I have a couple of salvaged 15-gallon
> kegs, and am now trying to decide which kind of tap I need. All-stainless
> taps are available, though somewhat hard to find, and more expensive than
> the regular kind...
I can't help with "more expensive", but as for finding them, both William's
Brewing and Northern Brewer have them. (I've not checked other sources;
I'm sure there are more.) While you're at it, the Perlick/Ventmatic type
of tap is worth the money--the "forward seal" does make a difference.
> ...Should I be concerned about the cider reacting with
> the non-stainless parts of regular taps?...
IMNSHO, yes!
I have made it almost a religious quest that any material which contacts
cider be stainless, glass, or for short-term, suitable plastic.
>...It's not clear to me if there
> is any brass in contact with the product, or if the contact parts are
> all chrome-plated. I'm pretty sure I should avoid brass contact with cider.
Open up a conventional tap; they vary. For a quick check, look at the back
of the tap, where it attaches to the shank. But I've got a fairly standard
one (no longer in use even for beer) which has bare brass parts inside.
And you're right: brass + cider == badmagic.
It is possible, with a little bit of hunting, to get everything in SS:
tap, shank, tailpieces. The keg couplers seem to be SS throughout.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008
From: Roy Bailey <enquiries@lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:05:10 +0100
In message <20080517021514.F0D928B779@raven.talisman.com>,
cider-request@talisman.com writes
>
>Subject: Traditional Perry Pear Grafting in N. America
>From: chris horn <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
>Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:21:01 -0700
>
>This may be a heck of a stretch but is anyone else in North America playing
>with traditional grafting of Perry pears? By traditional I mean to use
>seedling rootstock, interstem with Blankey Red to 6'-6" and then put the
>wanted variety on there.
When I started on grafting pear scions to produce an orchard of perry
pear trees some 12 years ago, I was advised by a nurseryman to use pyrus
communis (wild pear) for rootstock.
This is a very large and slow growing tree, (see
<http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Pyrus+communis> for some
details.
For smaller, quicker fruiting tress I was recommended to use quince
rootstock, which I believe is used for most culinary pears in the UK.
I have not gone down the route of double grafting, and my trees show no
signs of the corkscrewing that you mention.
>Anyone else playing with this? Am I off my rocker for playing with things
>that will not bear for 25 years?
Of course you are - and so am I! Wonderful, isn't it? There are far too
many sane people in the world.
Roy.
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor
The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
<www.lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
------------------------------
Subject: "Bittenfelder Saemling"
From: hvschablowsky@gmx.net
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:15:37 +0200
"Bittenfelder Saemling/Seedling" is an excellent juice and cider cultivar -
do not get mixed up with seedlings FROM Bittenfelder for rootstock !.
Bittenfelder is known for frost resistance, good scab and mildew resistance
and low susceptibiliy to fire blight.
At its origin, close to Stuttgart, it is harvested late ( end of October)
and needs favourable climatic and soil conditions to fully ripen its fruit.
Bittenfelder trees on Bittenfelder seedling rootstock take a long time
to come into bearing. A few nurseries in Germany offer Bittenfelder on
MM111 rootstock for cider apple plantations.
"Bittenfelder Saemling" scionwood is commercially available at
Reiserschnittgarten Weinsberg GmbH
Comburgstr. 31/1
D-74177 Bad Friedrichshall-Untergriesheim
Phone +49 (0) 71 36 / 96 43 75
Fax +49 (0) 71 36 / 96 43 76
E-Mail: info@reiserschnittgarten.de
http://www.reiserschnittgarten.de/impress.html
Bittenfelder is mentioned for overall robustness here - with picture:
M. Fischer
GENETIC RESOURCES AS BASIS FOR NEW
RESISTANT APPLE CULTIVARS
Journal of Fruit and Ornamental Plant Research vol. 12, 2004 Special ed.
http://www.insad.pl/files/journal_pdf/journal_2004spec2/full2004-3Aspec.pdf
Analyses of Bittenfelder apple juice of 2 harvesting years show very good
sugar and acid content results for Bittenfelder, 14 ° (year 2002) and 19
°(hot year 2003) Brix.
see tables 10.1 and 10.2 in
Christine Thielen - Author
http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=978829743&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filen
ame=978829743.pdf
or:
Christine Thielen - Author
Characterization of juices of different apple cultivars
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18092099
A description of "Bittenfelder Sämling" written in German and taken from
a well known apple variety handbook written by R. Silbereisen:
http://www.tafelobst.ch/produkte/html/394.htm
Cheers
- --
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1449
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