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Cider Digest #1460
Subject: Cider Digest #1460, 24 August 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1460 24 August 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Bentonite (Andrew Lea)
Pat's Normandy Cider trip report (david.pickering@dpi.nsw.gov.au)
Apples of Gloucestershire (Andrew Lea)
Cider apple prices? (jar18)
Great Lakes Cider & Perry Festival ("Gary Awdey")
Native Apples of Gloucester" by Charles Martell (in .pdf, .doc and (Marc S...)
A Tale of two ciders... (Terry Bradshaw)
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Subject: Bentonite
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:48:47 +0100
John Howard wrote:
>
> Andrew wrote:
> "Since bentonite is negatively charged, and the key nutrients in apple
> juice are positively charged (asparagine and thiamine), my guess is that
> it's taken them out hence the slow fermentation."
>
> Hmmm... Could bentonite be used as another technique toward the goal of
> creating a slow fermentation by starving the yeast, along the lines of
> keeving and using apples from unfertilized orchards?
Very interesting idea and one that I'd not considered, though I have
previously mused on using cation-exchange resins to do the same thing.
I suspect you'd need an awful lot of bentonite to make that work
effectively i.e. to create a fully 'stuck' fermentation.
Would make a very interesting Masters project for someone in a Food
Science Department somewhere!
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Pat's Normandy Cider trip report
From: david.pickering@dpi.nsw.gov.au
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:57:52 +1000
Thank you Pat for your travelogue tales - sounds like a great time.
Interesting to see Pierre Huet at Cambremer getting a mention. If anyone
wants a recommendation for accomodation when visiting Cambremer and/or the
Route du Cidre then try Marie-France Huet who operates a B&B in the
countryside outside Cambremer. The accomodation is in a converted cidre
house with the remnants of the beam press etc
mfhuet@club-internet.fr
Particularly thank you for the mention of Francois David.
> We met some interesting and eccentric people, including one well-known cider
> maker, Francois David, ............... (we had gone to his house in
> Blangy-le-Chateau (near Deauville), apparently)
The reason this was so intriguing is because of my trip last year to
France and the UK to look at the cider varieties that we have in
Australia. One of the varieties I was looking for was Cimitiere du Pays
but I didn't find it.
More research after coming back to Australia and I discovered I should
have been looking for Cimetiere de Blangy. Blangy-le-Chateau is in the
cider producing district of Pays d'Auge hence the corruption of the name
apparently. The French Dept of Ag (INRA) have since confirmed that what we
have in Australia is true-to-type Cimetiere de Blangy, a "douce amere"
(bittersweet).
So my next visit to France has to include a sentimental-journey visit to
the cemetery at Blangy-le-Chateau to see where this variety came from - or
if it is still there? One imagines there is a good chance that Francois
David is using this variety in his cider.
Another traveller out of Australia last year was Tony Thorogood, a cider
maker from Burra in South Australia . Tony was successful in obtaining a
Churchill Fellowship to study the culture and traditions of cider. If you
would like to see something of his travels the link to his report is
below.
http://www.churchilltrust.com.au/res/File/Fellow_Reports/Thorogood%20Anthony%202
007.pdf
David Pickering
Orange Agricultural Institute, NSW Dept of Primary Industries
Forest Road, Orange, NSW 2800, Australia
david.pickering@dpi.nsw.gov.au
phone 02 6391 3800 fax 02 6391 3899 mobile 042 727 1477
------------------------------
Subject: Apples of Gloucestershire
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:08:57 +0100
Joan Fletcher wrote
>
> A while back there was a notice on Cider Digest of a book available
> on line, "Native Apples of Gloucester" by Charles Martell. It exists
> on the web site as a 10 MB Word file. Does anyone possibly have it
> available as a PDF?
I made a PDF of this and gave Joan a link off-list from which she has
successfully downloaded it. If anyone else is in the same boat, e-mail
me off list and I will do likewise.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Cider apple prices?
From: jar18 <jar18@lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:48:06 -0600
Greetings,
Colorado State University has a small, student run orchard, 35 trees or so of
various Cider apples. What prices should they be asking/getting for the fruit
in US$/pound?
John Ray
John A. Ray
Colorado State University
Research Associate
W.D. Holley Floriculture Research Program
Department of Horticulture & Landscape Architecture
111 Shepardson Bldg
Fort Collins CO 80523-1173
970.566.0346 (Mobile)
970.491.4615 (Office)
970.491.7745 (FAX)
------------------------------
Subject: Great Lakes Cider & Perry Festival
From: "Gary Awdey" <gawdey@att.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:04:59 -0400
Here's something that may be of interes to those who are within travel
distance of central Michigan. The newly organized Great Lake Cider &
Perry Association is planning a kick-off festival for September 6-7
(the weekend after Labor Day) at Uncle John's Cider Mill in St. Johns.
Samples of cider and perry from the states and provinces that border the
Great Lakes will be available for tasting.
Admission is $5 and includes a souvenir glass and three pours;
additional pours are available for an additional fee. Admission tickets
for the Great Lakes Cider & Perry Festival can be purchased online at
www.michiganvine.com/blog/tickets. The festival runs from 11am until 6pm
on Saturday and Noon-4pm on Sunday. Profit proceeds from the festival will
benefit the newly formed Great Lakes Cider & Perry Association, whose mission
is to enhance consumer appreciation of cider and perry through education,
promotion and publicly recognizable standards of production excellence.
In addition to the cider and perry tastings, food vendors will be selling
sweet and savory selections. Attendees will also have an opportunity to
stock up on these not-so-easy-to-find beverages, available for purchase
during the event. Live entertainment includes Spur of the Moment Band from
1-4pm on Saturday and Fading World Band from 1-4pm on Sunday. Uncle John's
Cider Mill also offers family-based activities and those who have children
will probably find the venue to be a pleasant surprise.
Sunday also includes the first official meeting of the Association
(10am-Noon). Merits and goals of the organization, as well as the dues
structure and general business issues will be discussed. This meeting
is open to individual cider/perry makers and others interested in joining
the organization. The steering committee for the Great Lakes Cider & Perry
Association is made up of commercial wineries and cideries, near-commercial
cideries and serious home producers from Michigan, New York and Wisconsin.
A board of directors is expected to be elected at the meeting.
>From Noon-2pm on Sunday, non-commercial cider makers will submit their
best cider and perry samples for a Sensory Panel Evaluation by both a panel
of experts and festival attendees. Commercial wineries are encouraged to
bring tank/barrel samples for evaluation as well.
Uncle John's Cider Mill is located at 8614 N US 127, St. Johns, just north
of Lansing. Additional information about the venue is available online
at www.ujcidermill.com.
For those who will be coming from slightly greater distance there are some
accomodations in the area (listed in order of distance from the Festival).
St John's Motel: 989.224.2321 (St. Johns - 7mi)
Capri Motel: 989.224.4239 (St. Johns - 8mi)
Sun-Set Motel: 989.224.4538 (St. Johns - 9mi)
Sleep Inn: 517.669.8823 (DeWitt - 18mi)
Limited camping is also available on site (those interested in camping
should contact Mike Beck at Uncle John's Fruit House Winery to inquire
about availability).
Gary Awdey
Eden, New York
Gawdey@att.net
------------------------------
Subject: Native Apples of Gloucester" by Charles Martell (in .pdf, .doc and
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:35:48 -0700
> Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1458, 14 August 2008
> From: Joan Fletcher <cyberwyrd@telus.net>
> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:20:56 -0700
>
> "Native Apples of Gloucester" by Charles Martell. It exists
> on the web site as a 10 MB Word file. Does anyone possibly have it
> available as a PDF? I don't have Word and am limited to opening it in
> a text editor, which is beyond lame. From what I can glean from the
> text editor, it seems to have all kinds of wonderful information
> about apples I didn't even know existed. My husband, who does have
> Word on his computer, tried to download it for me and it gave him all
> kinds of error messages, leading us to suspect it is an infected
> file. Has anyone else had better luck?
>
Joan asked about getting a PDF copy of "Native Apples of Gloucester" by
Charles Martell. I was able to download the file from the
Glouchestershire Orchard Group site and import it to OpenOffice without
difficulty. I then saved it in .doc format, as well as .pdf and .odf.
All three formats are about 9 MB to 11 MB. I checked with the
Glouchestershire Orchard Group and they said that it was OK to reformat
and send copies of the file. I do not have a site with enough web space
to put these up, but I could e-mail a few copies. It would probably
also be OK if someone else wants to put these files up on a web site
where list members could get them, so long as they are properly attributed.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: A Tale of two ciders...
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:03:37 -0500
A little note about a couple of my ciders to kickstart conversation.
Like many, I started out fermenting dessert stock, adding in crabs and
wild apples, before eventually moving to more 'refined' bittersweets and
such. In 2007 I finally had enough Kingston Black for a single squeeze.
Mind you I was throwing terroir out the window...these fruit came from
South Burlington and Calais, Vt as well as Lebanon, NH. But squeeze it I
did, and fermented in my usual minimalist style; 50 ppm sulfite at the
squeeze, wild yeast, cold fermentation, one racking. In May it was still
at a gravity of 1.005 or so, and fairly cloudy, so I hit it with some
bentonite, 25 ppm sulfite, and racked. I bottled it six weeks ago. No
kegs for this batch.
The verdict? This is a very good cider, I'd even say excellent (look for
it as an entry in the 2008 GLOWS competition). Full bodied, slightly
fruity, rich, with just the right acid-tannin balance. It's dry, but
that tiniest bit of sweetness carries through with a nice apple
character. I call this my Kingston Black Special Reserve, and even state
on the label that the drinker should consider themselves lucky to be
trying this potion.
So just the other night I was poking around the cider room and came
across a bottle of 03 Bar (barrel blend, 2003 harvest). I didn't expect
much from this five-year old cider; pulling the cork found a slight
effervescent 'pop', maybe not a good thing. It poured into the glass
with the most gorgeous trains of bubbles I've seen, the color a nice
mild amber. There was still some nice sharp fruit in the aroma, and the
flavor? Spectacular! Balanced sharpness, fully dry but fruity, very
subdued oak. If I'd known that it would have aged this well I would have
saved more than one bottle, and that was probably a mistake.
As for how it matches up to the Kingston Black, I'd put it on equal
footing. Once you reach a certain level, particularly with the balance
of acid, fruit, and sweetness, they become peers and do not deserve
judgment against one another. Am I surprised that 'domestic' apples
could make a cider on par with the supposed king of cider apples? Not
really, and I have long advocated that the right domestic/crab blends
can make decent and even great cider. I just thought it interesting that
I got a chance to haphazardly try these two within a couple of days of
each other.
TB
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End of Cider Digest #1460
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