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Cider Digest #1475
Subject: Cider Digest #1475, 12 November 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1475 12 November 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Brun but no chapeau (Andrew Lea)
Clearing (Andrew Lea)
Cider Making (Andrew Lea)
Crispin Cider (Lesley Heron)
To Tim Barrie (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: clearing (Claude Jolicoeur)
Grinding Apples ()
RE:Few people brew it here or are even really sure what it is ("Andy Naastad")
Re: Few people brew it here or are even really sure what it is ("Gary Awdey")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Brun but no chapeau
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:59:58 +0000
Donald Davenport wrote:
> In the meantime, we racked it off into clean containers--it was
> getting pretty funky--and a fermentation finally got started, at
> about day sixteen.
Glad you were able to rescue it anyway. It would be good if a weak wild
apiculate yeast were commercially available to inoculate for keeving!
What i have sometimes done in a similar situation is to transfer a small
amount of an existing active wild yeast fermentation over into the keeve
to get the chapeau to rise. Sorry i forgot to mention this previously.
Andrew
------------------------------
Subject: Clearing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:07:03 +0000
Richard Blackburn wrote:
> I am fermenting a cider I made from pasteurized, yet unfiltered apple juice.
> It has been in the secondary for about 1 month and is very slowly clearing.
> Does anyone have a suggestion for clearing the cider?
When undepectinised juice is pasteurized it 'heat sets' a pectin-protein
cloud which becomes intractable and may never settle. You could try
various fining agents. Chitosan is one that might work; gelatin /
bentonite or gelatin / kieselsol as combination finings are another. Go
to a good winemaker's supply house. And do test finings first before
you start on a real bulk, because you may make matters worse!
Andrew Lea
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Making
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:11:19 +0000
John Engstrom wrote:
> I am interested in any information out there on cider making.
My website tries to be a repository of information for small scale
cidermaking. It is written from a UK perspective but people in the US
have also found it useful. It also gives links to various books - there
are at least 3 or 4 currently in print which are worth reading.
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Crispin Cider
From: Lesley Heron <lheron@briteblueco.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:51:12 -0600
We would like to announce the launch of a new cider on the USA market,
called Crispin cider. We are a super premium hard apple cider,
naturally fermented using a premium apple blend, with no added malt or
spirit alcohol. Its unique, crisp, smooth flavor has no sugar,
colorants, sodium, or benzoate preservatives. Please go to our web
site www.crispinoverice.com for more information.
------------------------------
Subject: To Tim Barrie
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:23:17 -0500
Tim Barrie wrote:
>Subject: Few people brew it here or are even really sure what it is
>
>Hi everyone, I'm new to this Digest and I have a couple of questions. I am
>in the process of testing a cider brewing kit and am wondering whether
>anyone else has used one and what kind of results they achieved?
>.....
>I am building a blog talking
>about all things Hard Cider. I'm doing this with the intent of encouraging
>people to try it.
>
>My blog is http://www.makehardcidereasy.com/ please feel free to take a look
>at it. I have only produced a couple of pages so far but am attempting to
>collect tips, tricks and recipes.
Tim,
This is my basic cider recipe - you may publish it in your blog if you wish...
1- Carefully choose your apples and blend them to get the type and
character you want for your cider.
2- Press them and ferment the juice slowly in a cool room for a duration
between 6 months and a year.
3- Bottle the cider and let it mature in bottles for another 6 months to a
year.
4- Enjoy (because it is really going to be good).
So, when I read in your blog things like "10 Minute Hard Cider" or
promotion of kits that claim "follow 4 simple steps and get great results
within 14 days", I think you are doing more harm than good to cider. I do
appreciate that you wrote about your 10 minute cider "It is really better
described as a fruit punch, however as it is made of apple juice and has
alcohol in it can be referred to as hard cider" but I can't agree with the
last part of the sentence.
As of my recipe, we could write: "Follow 4 easy steps and get a great cider
in 2 years!" This would make a nice title.
You wrote that you are new to this digest. Welcome aboard. And read it for
a little while, it will probably give you a better feeling of what this is
all about.
And, also, please don't use the word "BREW" when you talk about cider -
This is not beer.
By now, I am quite sure you consider me as one of those (quoting your blog)
"hard cider enthusiast (read snobs), that are rolling their eyes in dismay
upon reading this far". You may be right, that's allright.
Claude Jolicoeur
------------------------------
Subject: Re: clearing
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:34:34 -0500
In Cider Digest #1474, 9 November 2008 :
>Subject: clearing
>From: Richard Blackburn <rblackburn@mindspring.com>
>Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:45:43 -0400 (EDT)
>
>I am fermenting a cider I made from pasteurized, yet unfiltered apple juice.
>It has been in the secondary for about 1 month and is very slowly clearing.
>Does anyone have a suggestion for clearing the cider?
>- ---
>Richard Blackburn
Richard,
If I follow you well, this is a cider you started this fall about a month
ago. Please simply be patient. Good cider doesn't make itself in a couple
of weeks. It will probably clear by itself when it will be ready - this may
take some months... Don't rush it. Always remember that patience is the
mother of all virtues for a cidermaker.
On a more practical note, you should measure the evolution of the specific
gravity (SG) with time, so you can evaluate the speed of fermentation. When
the SG will reach 1.000 (or sometimes a little less or a little more) the
fermentation will stop and the cider will eventually clear. If it still
hasn't cleared 3 or 4 months after fermentation has stopped, then you may
write again to this list to get tips on clearing a cider that doesn't clear
by itself...
Claude Jolicoeur
------------------------------
Subject: Grinding Apples
From: <tdrockwood@roadrunner.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 8:53:23 -0500
Alan in Cider Digest #1474 was wondering about the garbage disposal
method of grinding apples. That subject was discussed a few times in the
archives, but I thought I'd give my experience. I too have have no desire
to handcrank my way through 20 or so bushels of apples each fall, not to
mention, the cost of the equipment from the few companies who produce
apple grinders. I went to Overstock.Com and found a brand new Kenmore
1 horsepower disposal unit with the chamber and grinders of stainless
steel (don't remember exactly, but I think it cost around $100 or so).
I built a table from 4x4 and 2x4 scraps with a plywood top, mounted a
double bowl stainless steel sink from our recent kitchen remodel in the
table, and attached the disposal with a power cord wired through a normal
switch (I always plug it into a GFI circut). To sanitize the unit I plug
the discharge with a rubber cork and run an iodine based sanitizer for a
minute or so, then rinse a couple times. I use the left bowl as a prewash
with about 2 1/2 gallons of water and a camden tablet, then simply push the
apples through one at a time. Depending on the apple variety (especially
desert type), I may have to cut the apples in half. Rarely (once this
fall), does the unit overheat and I need to wait for it to cool (15-20)
minutes, then push the reset button. After the grinding is complete,
I rinse, run a little sanitizer in it and rinse again before putting
it away. I've used it two years now and am very happy with the results.
It reduces everything to almost an applesause consistency and I'm getting
about 3 gallons per bushel yield, again, depending on variety. If anyone
would like a photo of the unit, I'd be happy to email one to you.
Now if only my Russets and Virginia Crabs would start to bear so I can
stop driving around to every apple crab and abandoned orchard I can find
in Niagara County!
Cheers!
Tom (tdrockwood@roadrunner.com)
------------------------------
Subject: RE:Few people brew it here or are even really sure what it is
From: "Andy Naastad" <anaastad@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:00:56 -0700
Tim, fifty five dollars for a juice concentrate kit to make 2.5 gal is
pretty expensive.
I would think you could do better with fresh juice from a mill. There must
be mills in your neck of the woods.
Also the plastic container that looks like a barrel must be hard to clean
and keep "air tight". I would
use a carboy and air-lock.
keep the vodka for Bloody Mary's or mix with your apple juice to make a
"bastard Pommeau".
AN.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Few people brew it here or are even really sure what it is
From: "Gary Awdey" <gawdey@att.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:23:44 -0500
In CD#1474, 9 November 2008, Tim Barrie wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm new to this Digest and I have a couple of questions. I am
> in the process of testing a cider brewing kit and am wondering whether
> anyone else has used one and what kind of results they achieved?
My initial efforts were with sweet cider pressed at a cider mill about two
hours away. The cidermaker was glad to set some unpasteurized juice aside
for me to pick up at a designated time. Even in a state like New York,
which now requires thermal pasteurization or UV treatment of sweet cider,
there is a loophole in the law that permits it to be sold untreated if it is
to be used to produce hard cider. It's a meaningless loophole for many
unless they find a cider mill willing to take the trouble to diverge from
the mainstream process and set some untreated juice aside for that specific
use. However, the two hours of travel in each direction was prompted more
by the availability of a particular apple variety than by the untreated
state. Selection of fruit varieties and the condition of fruit at the time
of pressing probably cannot be emphasized too much. When I look at kits all
I see are apple concentrate, sometimes having the addition of other fruit
concentrates as well. Options are very limited. It brings back memories
of throwing baker's yeast into some generic orange drink mix made from
powder (aka "bug juice"), then hiding it until it was fermented. This was
done out of boredom during a particularly long cruise on a nuclear
submarine. It fermented into something alcoholic and quite different from
anything I'd had to drink previously...and I hadn't had anything alcoholic
for at least a couple of months..so under the circumstances, and given the
added thrill of slightly reckless rebelliousness, I felt that it was fairly
good. In the context of that comparison, kit ciders are slightly more
refined, reliable...and boring.
> I have brewed my own cider before but wanted to be able to recommend to
> people ways to get started.
I started by punching "hard cider" into a search engine, then reading the
results that were appropriate to my level of understanding. That was enough
to clue me in to the fact that it is known simply as cider elsewhere in the
English-speaking world. Some sites, such as Andrew Lea's Wittenham Hill
Cider Portal, were much better than others. I also punched "hard cider" and
"cider" into bookseller site search pages to find out what books were
available. These days the act of finding information merits little in the
way of congratulations. The act of assimilating the information and
converting it into practical, timely skills may still require a bit of
effort, however. For budding cidermakers perhaps encouragement and a few
key links will be more useful than convenience.
>I am considering recommending kit as one
> possible way. Along with testing it myself I wanted to gather other
> experiences and recommendations.
Kits are probably not a bad approach for those with an interest in tasting
at home but do not have access to preservative-free sweet cider (punching
"cider mill" and the name of your state into a search engine may provide a
quick answer about that) AND who live in states with particularly
Kafkaesque laws about distribution of alchoholic beverages made by craft
cider producers. However, why would one want to take the trouble to
recommend kits when they are already one of the top hits when "hard cider"
is punched into a search engine (or, as in anomalities such as Utah, you can
find the kits in mega-chain stores such as Rite-Aid or Target)?
>
> I'm English but live in the States and I have found that few people brew
> here it or are even really sure what it is. I am building a blog talking
> about all things Hard Cider. I'm doing this with the intent of
encouraging
> people to try it.
Encouraging people to try cider is a worthy mission and I hope others take
up the cause as well. I should also mention that every once in a while
someone new will post to the Cider Digest and talk about "brewing" cider.
Cidermaking is not a thermal process as brewing beer is so it usually
prompts a terse (and not overly flattering) reply from one or two people.
It helps to be prepared with a thick skin and sense of humor.
> My blog is http://www.makehardcidereasy.com/ please feel free to take a look
> at it. I have only produced a couple of pages so far but am attempting to
> collect tips, tricks and recipes. I hope its okay to ask for input in this
> publication?
One tip would be to list links to good existing sites and save youself the
trouble of reinventing the wheel. Also, keep in mind that someone who
subscribes to a forum about fine craft furniture isn't looking for someone
to extoll the virtues of getting started at making your own furniture by
purchasing an assortment of some-assembly-required kits at Ikea. For many
people part of the appeal is the challenge of learning a new language and
skill set (whether in the details of producing it or in appreciating the
finished product). Sometimes presenting a good portion of the detail up
front will help people understand the importance of the fruit and
craftmanship, spurring interest in seeking out wider tasting opportunities.
Also, even when the tasting opportunities are there, you will encounter some
resistance. My favorite visual image of this resistance comes from Steve
Wood's description of hearing people say time and time again that they do
not like hard cider. He describes nearly having to hold their mouths open
and pour it down their throats to get them to realize that they may actually
like it after all. Similarly, some people will not be looking for cider
kits no matter how conveniently they may be obtained.
Gary Awdey
Eden, New York
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1475
*************************
