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Cider Digest #1473
Subject: Cider Digest #1473, 30 October 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1473 30 October 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Yahoo! may be blocking digests (Cider Digest Admin)
Iodine disposal (Terry Bradshaw)
Re: Wild Yeasts (Terry Bradshaw)
U.S. Cider Regulations ("Bob Capshew")
"Brun" but no chapeau (Andrew Lea)
white mold suppression (seth jones)
Iodine disposal (Andrew Lea)
Campden Tablet shelf life (Bradley Hunter)
Question on "off" barrels (Shawn Carney)
Reliable cider source in Washington DC (Alan Yelvington)
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Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Yahoo! may be blocking digests
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:58:35 -0600 (MDT)
If you're a Cider Digest subscriber with mail at yahoo.com and you see this
posting (e.g., in the archives or from someone else), please take note of
the following. Or if you know someone who normally receives the Digest via
an account on yahoo.com, PLEASE pass this information along:
Yahoo! recently started blocking mail from our domain. I don't know how
much has been blocked since they've botched the block and it takes five
days for me to find out. I don't know if I can get it fixed since their
trouble-report web page is all bollixed up.
I'll keep trying to get it fixed, but if the yahoo subscribers don't see
digests flowing again by the end of next week (first full week in
November), they should assume yahoo won't fix it and/or I've given up.
Over the years, Yahoo! has caused me 10x more problems than all other ISPs
put together, and frankly I'm fed up with it.
The best solution is for subscribers to find a reliable ISP for their
mail. Not to play favorites, but gmail (Google Mail) has done very well,
for just one example.
Sorry for the non-cider noise, but I want to keep the digest flowing to
everyone who wants it.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Iodine disposal
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:12:32 -0500
I don't know about disposal, but I stopped using iodine on the press after
the 'Great Iodine Debacle of 2005'. I initially ised iodophor on the press,
cloths, etc., and it left a major residual odor/taste. I use Star San on
the metal parts of the press now, and chlorine on cloths and wood racks
(200 ppm) and walls and floors (600 ppm). I may think if iodine again for
non-contact areas, but I don't know that I'd put it on the press itself
again, at least not anything that's absorbent.
A little off your original question, I know, but I don't recall a good
sanitizer discussion here before.
TB
> We recently switched to using Iodine as a sanitizer. Our practice has
> been, after we have sanitized all vessels, to allow the iodine solution
> to sit for several days until it loses it's color. This is the point,
> according to the label, at which it is no longer effective, so we have
> been assuming it is therefore safe to dispose of. Is this correct? I
> don't want to damage my septic system nor inadvertently pollute ground
> or surface water and would appreciate any feedback on the biological
> impact of iodine after several days of being exposed to oxygen and
> microbes.
> Happy Pressing!
> Jason MacArthur
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Wild Yeasts
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:26:46 -0500
Here I go again taking another person's post and twisting it into my
own. I have been a proponent of wild ferments for some time now, and
most of my customers in the mill followed that advice in 2006 and 2007
with good results. I have always maintained a separate set of wooden
racks that are pressure washed after every squeeze but never sanitized.
These racks were seeded with a wine yeast in 2005 by soaking in a sugar
water plus working yeast solution overnight. This year however I have
had bad luck with getting wild ferments going to the point where in a
two-week period I completely changed my advice to customers and began
handing out yeast with every carboy. After some people reported mold
problems I also bumped up the default sulfite levels that I apply to all
juice as it comes off the press from 50 to 100 ppm. Side note: my
antidote to molding has been to rack off the mold, hit with 100 ppm
sulfite, then pitch an active yeast.
I don't know if there's a question here, I just wanted to report my
experience from this year. I'm thinking that thorough and regular
pressure washing of racks could be enough to strip them of a decent
population of yeast, or there were some factor which kept them from
overwintering (the garage doesn't freeze).
I'll try one carboy from this past week as a wild one, but I'll be using
Red Star Premier Cuvee or Cotes de Blancs in most of them this year.
Another side note: for those who use packaged yeasts, what ones do you like?
TB
> For the last three years we have had good luck doing a portion of our
> ciders with natural yeast, even those batches that we've "dusted"
> with a little potassium metasulphite per Andrew's suggestion, say
> 50ppm. Within ten days or so, things were usually beginning to roll
> along nicely, so I feel pretty confident there's plenty of innoculum
> in the system. And this batch had no added sulphites, so it seems it
> would have been able to start up even easier.
------------------------------
Subject: U.S. Cider Regulations
From: "Bob Capshew" <rcapshew@insightbb.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:39:50 -0400
I'm aware that there is a required warning label in the U.S. to sell
unpasteurized apple juice (a.k.a. cider) and that some states such as New
York have even outlawed the sale of unpasteurized juice however I would
like to find a website that lists other federal requirements in this regard.
For example, is it permissable to sell properly labeled unpasteurized
apple juice in a farmers' market?
Bob Capshew
Southern Indiana
------------------------------
Subject: "Brun" but no chapeau
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:32:20 +0000
Donald wrote:
> overnight and then pressed the next day. We ended up with about 10
> liters, which we dosed with CaCO3 and table salt and set it in a 5
> gal carboy at 53 degrees F. .......
>
> It has now been 11 days. There is no sign of any fermentation. No
> gas being produced. The must has cleared somewhat, but by no means
> is clear like I've seen in pictures. It's still fairly murky. And
> the brown gelatinous layer is still resting on the bottom.
>
> However, now there are signs of white mold beginning to form on the
> surface.
First, what levels of chalk and salt did you use? Second, I'm wondering
about "table salt". They contain salts in addition to sodium chloride
(eg ferricyanides) to prevent caking and to preserve free-running, so
I'm just wondering if they are inhibiting the yeast in addition to the
sodium chloride itself.
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: white mold suppression
From: seth jones <sethjones@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:11:38 -0400
Two weeks a go I put up my first batch of cider for the year- 15
gallons split into 3 carboys. SG. 1.060. All three pitched with
LC1118. Treated 2 carboys with metabisulphite @ 50ppm. Left the third
to see what the result would be. The result? A silver dollar size
white mold floating on top of the fermenting cider. Suctioned the mold
off as well as possible..
So now what? Do I sulphite and reapply yeast? At what rate? Any other
ideas?
Thanks in advance
Seth Jones
------------------------------
Subject: Iodine disposal
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:25:10 +0000
Jason wrote:
> We recently switched to using Iodine as a sanitizer. Our practice has
> been, after we have sanitized all vessels, to allow the iodine solution
> to sit for several days until it loses it's color. This is the point,
> according to the label, at which it is no longer effective, so we have
> been assuming it is therefore safe to dispose of. Is this correct? I
> don't want to damage my septic system nor inadvertently pollute ground
> or surface water and would appreciate any feedback on the biological
> impact of iodine after several days of being exposed to oxygen and
> microbes.
Other chemists / biochemists / microbiologists on the list may have a
different view but my take is as follows:
Iodine is a powerful oxidising agent and sanitises in that way (breaking
DNA strands in microbes etc). By doing so it is chemically reduced to
(colourless) iodide which is no more toxic than chloride (eg common
salt). It should not therefore damage septic systems once colourless nor
present a biological hazard in that state.
Thats my two cents / six penn'orth.
Andrew
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Campden Tablet shelf life
From: Bradley Hunter <hunter@midcoast.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:34:55 -0400
A local Homebrew Supply shop went out of business several years ago and
I purchased a large bag of Campden Tablets at close out prices. I usually
sulfite my ciders at the rate of 75 ppm before fermentation and my annual
production is around 40 - 50 gal. At that rate I'm not using up this bulk
bag of tablets very quickly.
Does anyone have a sense of how much SO2 effectiveness is lost over time,
if any? The fact that they are tablets and not powdered crystals means
less surface area is exposed to air. Is that a consideration?
I do use a sulphite and citric acid rinse in my oak barrel cleaning schedule
so perhaps the aged Campden tablets might be reserved for that application
and new ones be utilized in the actual fermentation process?
Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.
Brad
------------------------------
Subject: Question on "off" barrels
From: Shawn Carney <shawn@blossomwoodcidery.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:26:22 -0400
Walter, I can tell you that sulfur candles do not kill malolactic bacteria
in barrels and I would bet they would not kill acetic acid bacteria either.
I have never tried to bring a bad barrel back but I have heard that ozone
will do so, and also a product from Barrel Builders
http://barrelbuilders.com/
called ProxyClean. The best thing for barrels is to keep them full of cider
as much as possible, if this isn?t an option keep 10-15 gal of low ph water
with a good dose of SO2 and burn sulfur every few months.
------------------------------
Subject: Reliable cider source in Washington DC
From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:41:30 -0400
Right now I'm enjoying a Normandy cider that was matured in Calvados
casks for 6 months. I'm very happy.
Cleveland Park Liquor & Wines maintains a very nice selection of cider,
and they are looking into offering a cider tasting sometime soon.
I'm not much into commercial plugs, but they have been very helpful
tracking down labels, and keep Aspall in the cooler.
Cleveland Park Liquor & Wines
3423 Connecticut Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20008
(202) 363-4265
One block from the Cleveland Park metro station on the Red line.
Back to sipping....
Al Yelvington
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1473
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