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Cider Digest #1485
Subject: Cider Digest #1485, 2 February 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1485 2 February 2009
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Sam Smith cider (Dick Dunn)
Re: First post and question ("McGonegal, Charles P")
Looking for suggestions regarding next cider steps ("David Cleveland")
mold (Jack O Feil)
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Subject: Re: Sam Smith cider
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:52:59 -0700
Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com> wrote:
> With the recent postings on Crispin cider, I was wondering if anyone else
> has tried Samuel Smith's Organic Cider.
Yep here.
> ...It was recommended to me as being a cut above the
> typical industrial "draft" cider, but I have to say that I wasn't impressed.
> It definitely tastes better than Harpoon's thin, watery stuff, and isn't
> anywhere near as hypersweet as Ace or Cider Jack, etc. It's just very, very
> basic and appley to my taste, and my reaction to it is "Eh, so what?" I
> definitely don't think it's worth the premium price.
Same here. My first impression of it was "VERY fizzy", and although some
of that might be due to our altitude, the stuff actually foamed up out of
the bottle when I opened it--which a typical six-pack cider does not. (No,
I don't believe this was from contamination.) Beyond that, quite sharp.
Might be a bit of cider fruit used in it. I would rate it as slightly
better than Strongbow, but agree with Ben that it's not worth the premium
price (about 2x other six-pack ciders, ounce-for-ounce). It certainly
seems as if they're trading on the Sam Smith name recognition.
Note the ingredient list: Water, Organic Apple Juice, Organic Cane Sugar,
Malic Acid, Yeast, Carbon Dioxide.
Water as the -first- ingredient?!?
(Maybe somebody forgot to tell them about the labeling dodge of using
"hard cider" as the first ingredient to hide the water/sugar addition
for fermenting?)
Quick calculation from the Nutritional Info indicates it's about 2.5%
residual sugar.
>...Part of the problem, I guess, is that I just don't enjoy drinking this
> style of cider...
>...So what are the brands that others feel are worth drinking, if any?...
But is it cider? Yes, that's what it's called, but "Sayin' it don't make
it so." Are there any ciders with national distribution that aren't in
the "glucose wine" category? (OK, now we have one "sucrose wine"?:-)
I try to find artisan ciders which can be mail-ordered. Of course this
depends on regulations in your state; it's a mess. Also, if you travel
or have good friends who do, you can bring some back or ask a favor.
personal choices:
Blossomwood is in Colorado so I can get that. I can order Westcott Bay,
Bellwether, and AEppeltreow. Theoretically I could buy Farnum Hill here,
but our regional distributor has not been helpful. West County is well
worth a visit or begging a favor from someone going near there. Oliver's
has made a couple appearances in the US.
(At the risk of embarrassing omissions, that's a short list)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: First post and question
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:19:58 -0500
Eh? Did someone rub my lamp?
Frank, to supplement Ben's comments, I'll toss out a few ideas for fun
cultivars.
I don't think you should much trouble with climate. I'm on the other
side of the lake from you, and the only thing we have trouble with is
Esopus Spitzenburg. A freeze too hard, too early pops the bark off the
trunks every decade or so. So everything we've tried grows. Not
everything reaches full flavor. Haralson, for instance, seems to better
with the more continental/prairie climate further west. I tend to
overlook climate suggestions for apples - partly from boarishness,
partly for experimentation. Over here, Winter Banana varies a lot from
year to year.
Hewe's Virginia Crab
Harrison
(both colonial cider apples - not spitters. Both heavenly. Can't tell
you how Harrison does here - yet!)
Golden Russet - either English or New York
Winesap (old strains)
Roxbury Russet
All these are essentially sweet/sharps. Count them in both categories
when blending.
For tannic apples, I'm going to make suggests that may be a little
controversial. First, the Foxwhelp floating around in MI isn't true.
Call it 'Fauxwhelp' if you like. The one I got looks like a Wolf River,
with a bit of bitterness. Second, I'm going to suggest Domaine, Major
and Binet Blanc . Binet Blanc puts out fruit like a crab, and is
precocious, too. Major and Domaine are early harvest and seem prone to
skin issues. All three are low-moderate acidity, fruitier, with
rich-not-harsh tannins. Major and Domaine have more varietal character.
If you really want a Kingston Black-type (I don't care for it myself)
try Frequin Tardive. It fruits earlier and has a great bouquet, along
with the chemical/salty tannin profile that Kingston has.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Looking for suggestions regarding next cider steps
From: "David Cleveland" <david.cleveland@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:04:22 -0500
Hello all -
My first attempt at making cider -
All from my old trees in Southern NH - 40 to perhaps 90 years old.
Identified as Macintosh - perhaps Fameuse, Red Delicious - perhaps Hawkeye,
Cortland, and a pure unknown - old, small, tart, sooty fruit. Trying to be
natural - no sprays or chemicals.
Half of them pressed October 8, half October 31 various ratios of generally
the same apples.
Three five gallon and one three gallon carboy. Various yeasts - champagne,
ale, lager and one with "natural/wild/no added" yeast.
Three measured SG at 1.050, and one at 1.060 containing more of the unknown
variety. No PH measurements.
Seemed like strong activity in all carboys, champagne yeast more vigorous
than others - started within a week ended in about six-seven weeks from the
start.
Basement temperature begun at 57-58 degrees - now 50-51 degrees.
January 25 - SG for all carboys measured 1.0000. All tasted slightly
different and slightly acidic, but no "off" taste. I do not have an educated
palate.
All opaque - certainly not close to clear.
Racked all carboys. Added half gallon of fresh (was frozen) cider to top up
one carboy. Returned to basement.
What now?? Is the best approach to wait a few months or to take some action?
Is it reasonable that all SGs were measured as1.0000? The same as water?
Any suggestions appreciated -
Thank you and best regards,
Dave Cleveland
------------------------------
Subject: mold
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:51:56 -0800
I pressed out 25 gallons of juice from apples I had in storage,
put it in carboys, added campden tablets at one tablet per gallon and
waited for the fermentation to start. After ten days, no fermentation but
blue mold formed on the surface. Now, a little over two weeks one carboy
has started fermenting and while I wanted wild yeast fermentation, I
added cider fermenting with wine yeast to the other five carboys in hopes
of starting them to ferment.
First of all what happened to cause the mold to form and if the
juice does ferment to dryness will my cider taste of mold? I've been
making cider for about ten years without ferment problems. The best batch
I made was with wild yeast last year that's why I didn't use wine yeast.
So where to from here, dump, keep my fingers crossed, drink moldy cider
or what?
Thanks for any input, Jack
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End of Cider Digest #1485
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