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Cider Digest #1433
Subject: Cider Digest #1433, 20 January 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1433 20 January 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Oxygenating cider (Andrew Lea)
Cranberry Cider (Bradley Hunter)
Composting Pomace ("Rich Anderson")
Re: composting spent pomace (Bill)
Empty bottle preparation question ("Jaime Schier")
Mass Aggie Seminars ("Casey Jennings")
Clarifying cider (Dan Aldrich)
Fermentation Speed and Fruit Age (con.traas@theapplefarm.com)
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Subject: Oxygenating cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:32:23 +0000
Gary Smith wrote:
> I'm wondering if it's an asset to oxygenate the wort (if it's called
> wort when making cider) and if so, are there any guidelines unique to
> cider I should follow? I use a .5 micron oxygenator at the bottom of
> the fermenter & a tank of O2.
Generally it's not necessary to oxygenate cider must ('must' or 'juice'
is the term here, not 'wort'). There is enough by normal pick up of air,
especially bearing in mind that unlike a wort you're not boiling it (we
hope!). Oxygenation is usually only needed for high gravity commercial
fermentations in tall tanks where oxygen diffusion is limiting, or
occasionally if a fermentation is badly stuck. There are potential
disadvantages to excess oxidation in that cider 'tannin' is prone to
oxidative loss and browning.
There are several notable differences between brewing and cidermaking.
The key with cider is to start thinking like a winemaker, not a brewer.
For instance, long slow low temperature fermentations, use of SO2, no
such thing as a 'secondary' yeast fermentation, no easy way of retaining
residual sweetness (i.e. no partial attenuation) etc etc.
Good luck!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Cranberry Cider
From: Bradley Hunter <hunter@midcoast.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:22:55 -0500
I will soon be transferring my fall pressing of 30 gal. of cider out of
primary and into a variety of secondary fermenters.
About 15 gal. will go into a stainless half barrel keg. Another 10 will
go into an oak cask that I use exclusively for cider and cysers. The
remainder I would like to rack onto 10 lbs. of frozen organic
cranberries I picked up at a local farmers' market.
What would be the best way to prepare the cranberries? Since they are
high in pectin I an concerned about heat treating the berries for fear
of setting the pectin and causing haze issues, even with the use of
some oectic enzyme. If I heat to only 150 F and not to boiling temp am
i less likely to have problems?
Could I mash the 10 lbs and then sulphite at an appropriate level ,
such as 75 ppm?
Could I do nothing and trust that the alcohol level now makes it too
hostile for any bad bugs to cause trouble?
Thanks for any advice.
Brad
------------------------------
Subject: Composting Pomace
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:35:22 -0800
You have a lot of pomace to deal with. This is a fairly acid material, my
guess with a ph of <4.0 so you need a fair amount of lime to bring it to
neutral for a good compost. You might consider finding a local dairy farmer
or pig farmer to take it fresh for feed. It can also be dried and sold for
feed. Ours and in much smaller quantities is feed to the deer.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: composting spent pomace
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:13:45 -0800
In my experience, as both a 'rabid' master composter and juice plant
operator, the best first step for composting large volumes of apple pulp
is feeding it to cows, which will shortly result in a material more
amenable to the hot composting process. Composting is nutrient
recycling, and animal feed is a much higher end use for the nutrients in
pulp, requiring zero additional inputs for a more easily, or even
directly, useable output.
I've experimented with composting pulp in a variety of ways, but the
amount of bulking agent required [wood chips or coarse sawdust] and
difficulty maintaining aeration makes it not worth the trouble or
expense, particularly as the process requires the labor of intense
management at the same time that harvesting/pressing/processing requires
the focus. In addition, the bulking agent adds to an already poor C:N
ratio, requiring the judicious addition of higher nitrogen materials,
although lime isn't necessarily required, as the pulp isn't as acidic as
might be thought given the pH of the juice, and the aerobic bacteria
involved actually do best in an acidic medium.
Even the local fish waste composter, with large volumes of wood waste,
high nitrogen main input, and the mechanical means to deal with huge
windrows, decided the result of one season of multi-ton pulp additions
wasn't worth the bother.
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Empty bottle preparation question
From: "Jaime Schier" <jschier@harpoonbrewery.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:32:29 -0500
We are using neither pasteurization nor sulfites to stop metabolic
activity in bottled cider, relying on sterile filtration instead to
remove yeast prior to packaging. If there are any other cider makers
that do the same, would you mind commenting on your technique for
preparing empty bottles for filling? Our past experience with beer
indicates that low #'s of environmental (ubiquitous) bacteria and
generic molds are to be expected in empty bottles, but since beer is a
nutrient-depleted environment they don't cause much trouble. We rinse
beer bottles with sterilized, de-oxygenated water which removes nearly,
but not all, microorganisms from inside empty bottles. Since cider has
a fair amount of fermentable sugars and other nutrients I'm wondering if
we need to step up our bottle preparation technique to eliminate them.
Is anyone rinsing bottles with a sanitizer prior to filling them? We're
using brand new, single-pass non returnable bottles, so cleaning isn't
really the issue.
Thanks in advance & cheers,
Jaime
Jaime Schier
QA/QC Manager
Harpoon Brewery
Boston, MA
617.574.9551
------------------------------
Subject: Mass Aggie Seminars
From: "Casey Jennings" <rcjennings@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:50:24 -0500
For those within striking distance of Massachusetts the UMASS Amherst Fruit
Program is offering some seminars during February March and April on:
Apple Growing
Apple Pests
Organic Apple Growing
Pruning
I've taken some of Wes Autio's classes and can heartily recommend them
link
http://www.massaggieseminars.org/
------------------------------
Subject: Clarifying cider
From: Dan Aldrich <daldrich@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:30:44 -0500
OK, my keeving experiment has failed, leaving me w/ milky white
cider. Is there any way to clarify this? I was thinking for pectinase
or bentonite, but really want to try to get the calcium salt out of
solution as well as clarifying.
Thanks,
- -d
------------------------------
Subject: Fermentation Speed and Fruit Age
From: con.traas@theapplefarm.com
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:01:41 -0800 (PST)
Andrew wrote:
"Claude is right. Fermentation speed *is* proportional to juice nitrogen
content (other things being equal). For instance, I published a paper
which shows this back in 1978, and it was well known to all at Long
Ashton from the 1940's onwards. See www.cider.org.uk/vitax.pdf (Table 1)"
You are quite correct Andrew; what I meant to say was that, where N is
constant, I would be reluctant to ascribe changes in fermentation speed to
factors other than temperature and initial yeast loads.
And I assumed that since Claude's apples were "the same", that N would be
constant (despite remembering reading in a journal paper from the 1950's
about protein increasing during the respiratory climacteric).
However, I never even thought to consider the effect of protein as opposed
to free amino acid versions of N on fermentation speed, and if I had, I
would probably have assumed that the yeast would possess an enzyme to
break down the protein, or that such an enzyme might be naturally present
in the juice, so it still would not have dawned on me.
The more I look at it though, the more impressed I am with Andrew's new
hypothesis.
Do you think we could gather any more evidence from the literature or
experiment to make this Lea's theory, or better still, Lea's law.
Con Traas
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1433
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