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Cider Digest #1469
Subject: Cider Digest #1469, 7 October 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1469 7 October 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1467, 25 September 2008 ("Kevin Luke")
Re: Vitamin C (Bill)
Vitamins in Cider (Andrew Lea)
Campden tabets and Yeast (David Blakely)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1467, 25 September 2008
From: "Kevin Luke" <kluke@amerytel.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:00:44 -0500
Re: Is It a keeve
Thanks to everyone for the input, I got a couple of votes for yes, a couple
for no. I'm planning to keep it and see how it turns out. No HUGE loss if
it is a bust.
Claude,
Thanks for the Picasa idea, I'll use it next time I need to share pictures.
A picture is worth a thousand words when trying to debug a problem.
Bill and Dick,
I don't think it is scum from a violent start (I could be wrong though), I
used a blow-off tube for a full week, and it had settled down to a pretty
gentle bubble before I added the air lock.
I heard from Gary Awdey also (Thanks, Gary), and he thinks it's a keeve.
Time will tell whether it's fit to drink or not. Again, thanks for the
input. I've lurked for about 3 years now and have learned a lot from you
guys.
Kevin
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Subject: Re: Vitamin C
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:25:58 -0700
The vitamin content of apples is highly variable by variety and amount
of sun exposure. There isn't generally a high Vit C content in most
varieties, and it is mainly concentrated in/just under the skin.
Ascorbic related acids will mostly be eliminated by the oxidative
process during juicing, and I'd expect any vitamin content in a finished
fermentation to be very minimal, including the B vitamins, which will be
providing yeast nutrition .... Cider is food for the soul, not for the
body .... Andrew may have a more science based answer.
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
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Subject: Vitamins in Cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:27:06 +0100
Mark Johnson wrote:
> Is the vitamin C found in Apples destroyed in the process of making cider?
Yes but it is destroyed as you mill the fruit long before fermentation.
The oxygen of the air destroys ascorbic acid in a 'coupled oxidation'
together with the apple polyphenols and the polyphenoloxidase enzyme. A
very small amount of Vitamin C activity may remain in a full juice cider
but this will be probably be as dehydroascorbic not ascorbic (both have
Vit C activity). However, the amount can be just about sufficient to
prevent major symptoms of scurvy as James Lind's famous sea trial of
1747 demonstrated (though more often remembered for the daily oranges
and lemons rather than for the quart of cider!)
> Also is there an increase or decrease in B vitamins?
That's a tricky one because B vitamins are both utilised and synthesised
by the yeasts depending on levels already in the apples and the strain
of yeast itself. At the end of fermentation some vitamins might be
excreted by dying yeast. Apples themselves are not significant dietary
sources of B vitamins, providing only a tiny fraction of the RDA. What
little data exists (over 30 years old now) seems to show a reduction in
thiamine and nicotinic acid but an increase in riboflavin and
pantothenate after fermentation. If B vitamins are added to assist the
fermentation, the final levels might be higher all round.
> What other vitamins and minerals might be expected to be found in a natural
> made cider?
Courtesy of the US Taxpayer, you can find the mineral levels in apples
at http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ They will not change
during fermentation. The fat soluble vitamins like Vitamin A (as beta
carotene) and Vitamin E (as tocopherol) are very low in apples and are
not soluble in the juice.
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Campden tabets and Yeast
From: David Blakely <dabnews@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 21:40:34 -0700
I am making a 5 gallon batch of cider using apples on my property. If I
use campden tablets to prepare my juice for cider and I am making 6 gallon
batchs can you tell me how much campden should be used and how long should
I wait to pitch my good yeast.
David
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End of Cider Digest #1469
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