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Cider Digest #1457
Subject: Cider Digest #1457, 7 August 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1457 7 August 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Bentonite (Andrew Lea)
Re:cider magazine (Steury and Noel family)
audience for cider magazine (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Bentonite
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:46:05 +0100
Harry Masters wrote:
> Hello, I was interested to read your questions about the use of
> Bentonite. I used it last autumn combined with Lalvin yeast EC 1118
> Selection Champenoise, Saccharomyces Byanus. This was supposed to
> produce a faster, 'fresher' fermentation. However, the fermentations
> have taken longer than usual (still fermenting now in a couple of
> cases).
> Anybody have any observations?
What works for wine does not always translate directly to cider. As I
understand, one of the claimed advantages for bentonite added to
fermentation is that it provides solid particles for nucleation and
release of C02 to take place, thus allowing the yeast to work more
efficiently. The additional advantage of protein removal is not relevant
since there is virtually none in apple juice / cider.
Since bentonite is negatively charged, and the key nutrients in apple
juice are positively charged (asparagine and thiamine), my guess is that
it's taken them out hence the slow fermentation. Hence you may now need
to treat it as a stuck fermentation and add back amino acids (or
ammonium phosphate) and thiamine.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Re:cider magazine
From: Steury and Noel family <steurynoel@mail.potlatch.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:09:14 -0700
re: cider magazine
As a cidermaker, a well-edited magazine sounds great. As a magazine
editor in my day job, I'll add a few words of caution. I'll be among
the first to send in my $50 subscription. Figure that an absolute
minimum. Advertising? There's plenty of reason for not selling ads
beyond questions of journalistic ethics and conflict of interest.
Advertising covers about a quarter of our budget. The rest is
subsidized. Ad sales requires one FTE position. Of course, it can
produce income, but it's a pain in the rear.
I have a full-time staff of five to produce a 60-68 page quarterly.
With a circulation of 150,000, we obviously operate on a different
scale. But economy of scale is well-defined by magazines. The
single copy that costs us $.55 will cost a magazine with a
circulation of 300 at least $5/copy just for printing, depending on
production values. Printing bids vary wildly.
Current examples out there right now that you might use as a more
relevant example are, off the top of my head, The Art of Eating,
edited and published and art directed... by Ed Behr. Also, maybe
Farming, editor David Kline. Though I'm not sure Farming is still in
business. Art of Eating's circulation, I'd guess is between one and
three thousand. AOE is where I get the $50 sub rate.
Good luck. Just do your numbers.
- --
Tim Steury and Diane Noel
1021 McBride Road
Potlatch, ID 83855
208.875.0804
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Subject: audience for cider magazine
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:27:03 -0600
"Rosalind Rogoff" <contact@sanramonobserver.org> wrote in the last digest:
> I like the idea of a cider magazine. You could position it with the
> wine magazines. You don't need to make it a big, fancy thing like Wine
> Spectator, but it should be for wine and beer drinkers as much, if not
> more, than for producers.
URK! Gack! I mean, well, errr...that's quite a bit different from what
I'd expected Alan Yelvington meant.
My speculation is that there isn't enough good craft cider to justify a
magazine for cider -drinkers- yet. I thought Alan was talking about a
mag for cidermakers (serious amateur and craft commercial). There's a
plausible market for such a magazine and I hope Alan goes for that.
As to the Wine Speculator style, well...obviously a lot of folks like it,
but I find it pretentious and snobbish. The world of wine supports that
snobbery, but I doubt that cider could or would. Just for starters,
there's about two orders of magnitude more wineries than cideries. Beyond
that, cider is historically a beverage with less pretense than wine.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1457
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