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Cider Digest #1436
Subject: Cider Digest #1436, 5 February 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1436 5 February 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Backsweetening with concentrate (Charles Mcgonegal)
Small Scale Yeast Filtering ("Kevin Luke")
Rootstocks (#1434) (james cummins)
Fruit age and fermentation speed (Andrew Lea)
Willamette Valley (Oregon) Fruit Tree Growers Association Winter ("Analysi...)
re: composting of pomace (Alistair Bell)
Re: Cider Digest #1435, 29 January 2008 (Claude Jolicoeur)
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Subject: Backsweetening with concentrate
From: Charles Mcgonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:09:39 -0600
Joe, I use concentrates for backsweetening. I source them from food
industry brokers. They come in 5 gallon pails, 50 gallon drums and
larger. They are usually 70 brix - about like honey. You could
probably use consumer concentrates from the grocery - but they will be
weaker, and many are mostly high fructose corn syrup.
I figure the amount by deciding how much residual sugar I'd like, then
using the concentrate instead, using that 70% figure.
You'll need to stabilize the product somehow. Some combination of
pasteurization, sterile filtration, sorbate, CO2, or elevated alcohol.
Some concentrates harbor resistant and troublesome yeast strains. I've
had issues with pear. Other concentrates will throw a sediment, no
matter what (strawberry).
I like concentrates because they are compact to store, available on
demand and don't add much volume to a flavored cider. On the other
hand, they are expensive, not locally grown and occasionally loaded
with nasty yeasts. Other digesters have written about using a reserve
of sweet cider, but I'm not set up to store/retrieve it, and my food
inspector insists that it would have to be pasteurized.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Elegant Hard Cider and Orchard Wines
>>Sent from my iPhone<<
------------------------------
Subject: Small Scale Yeast Filtering
From: "Kevin Luke" <kluke@amerytel.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:44:21 -0600
How practical is it to filter yeast from cider on a small scale (5
gals)? Is it successful enough at removing yeast that I can lightly
sweeten and keg, without too much risk of re-starting fermentation?
Has anyone had any experience good / bad with Buon Vino Mini Jet Wine
Filter (or other)? It claims to filter down to 1/2 micron, which should
remove (enough?) yeast. I'm looking for other alternatives to
sulphiting, I have fairly nasty reactions when I drink it. I've thought
about pasteurization, but I'm a little nervous about pasteurizing 5
gallons in an open kettle, and lactose doesn't interest me.
Thanks for any input,
Kevin
------------------------------
Subject: Rootstocks (#1434)
From: james cummins <jnc1@localnet.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:11:39 -0500
Dick, the note below may shed some light on the question of Geneva
rootstocks. Not all stoolbeds have been harvested already, and it does
appear that supplies will be somewhat better than earlier anticipated.
The Geneva rootstocks have proved to be difficult to propagate and
therefore supply continues to be far short of demand. In our Geneva
breeding program, our primary screening was for resistance (or
tolerance) to collar rot (major problems for M.26 and MM.106) and fire
blight (critical with M.9 and M.26), and in the first stoolbed
evaluations, we sought to reduce the problem of burrknots (serious on
M.26, moderate to serious on other English rootstocks). By selecting
against burrknots, which are clusters of adventitious roots, we
obviously made rooting in the stoolbed more difficult. In contrast,
the Malling and Malling-Merton rootstocks were originally selected for
easy rooting; selecting for easy rooting meant, in effect, in
selecting for burrknots.
The propagation difficulties have been exacerbated by the tendency of
most of the Geneva introductions to shift from juvenile to adult phase
very quickly. This has been especially noticeable with Geneva 16; we
often find blossoms in the G.16 stoolbed. We have found some relief
from this problem by establishing new stoolbeds from either root
cuttings or tissue-cultured plants. Geneva 11 does root reasonably
well and does not tend to early shift to mature stage. We have had one
experimental stoolbed of G.16 derived from root cuttings, and here we
had good rooting. Geneva 30 and G.16 beds derived from tissue cultured
plants rooted much better than G.30 from conventional stoolbeds -- but
we also find a somewhat increased tendency to spines on the liners.
In general, the Geneva introductions are providing improved disease
resistance, better winter hardiness, and improved productivity. The
price paid for these improvements has been more difficulty in
propagation, an increase in need for tree support, and requirement for
tighter crop load management, especially in the early years. Supply is
improving and should continue to improve as stoolbeds mature.
Stoolbeds of Geneva 11 and G.30 are being extended his spring and
supply should be close to meeting demand within a couple of years. The
new stocks being introduced -- Geneva 41, G.202 and G.935 -- will be
coming on line.
//Jim
------------------------------
Subject: Fruit age and fermentation speed
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:58:39 +0000
Claude Jolicoeur wrote (a while back now):
>
> I have a question for those who have more knowledge on fermentation
> chemistry.
> I have noticed a strong correlation between the date of pressing and the
> fermentation speed.
> Taking the same variety, and even from the same tree, if I make a pressing
> soon after harvest, the resulting cider will have tendency do ferment
> relatively quickly. But if I wait until the apples become very ripe or
> slightly overripe, the resulting cider will be much slowlier.
It turns out that Claude's observation *has* been made before. According
to Charley's 1949 translation of Warcollier's 1928 'La Cidrerie' this
was noted in pears by no less authorities than Mueller-Thurgau and
Osterwalder. No date is given for this reference but I would guess it to
be pre WW1. For those who are not familiar with these people,
Mueller-Thurgau was the first director of the Waedenswil Research
Station in Switzerland (and after whom the eponymous grape was named).
He and Osterwalder were the first people to describe scientifically the
bacterial nature of the malo-lactic fermentation back in 1913.
Elevated company indeed, Claude!!
[For those who read German...
http://www.geschichte-des-weines.de/personenAZ/osterwalder_adolf.html
http://www.geschichte-des-weines.de/personenAZ/mueller_thurgau_hermann.html
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_M%C3%BCller_(Thurgau) ]
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Willamette Valley (Oregon) Fruit Tree Growers Association Winter
From: "Analysis_Lab (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor@peak.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:26:54 -0800
Don't know how many Cider Digest subscribers are in the area, but I
forward a notice of the local Fruit Tree Growers Association. I've
brought up the prospect of cider apples before and will do so again this
year in the afternoon business session to poll the members about
interest and potential for collaboration.
Any good models of dessert/cider apple mixed orchards and transitioning
into cider apple production?
Thanks,
Scott Bruslind
Lacomb, OR 97355
please call Tommie van de Kamp to register for this event. Call 503
769-8965 or Email at: pvdkfarm at wvi.com
Willamette Valley Tree Fruit Growers Association Annual Meeting
*PLACE: Roth?s IGA. 1131 Wallace Road, the east side of Wallace Road
(Highway 221), West Salem*
* **Saturday, February 09, 2008
10am-3pm
------------------------------
Subject: re: composting of pomace
From: Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca>
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:19:03 -0800
Thanks for all the advice about composting pomace. Simply put, the
pomace has main 2 strikes against it:
- -the consistency of the material restricts aeration
- -the lack of nitrogen restricts bacterial growth
both can be dealt with by adding straw and manure(fertiliser), the
difficulty comes when the pile gets large and the tractor is small :)
Finding a farmer to take the pomace for animal feed is possible for
us, but I doubt we can rely on that totally.
I'll keep the list posted on what solutions work for us.
cheers,
Alistair
Alistair Bell
Cellar Manager
www.seacider.ca
alistair@seacider.ca
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1435, 29 January 2008
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:38:01 -0500
In Cider Digest #1435, 29 January 2008
>Claude wrote:
>> Maybe we have something here that merits a little more digging. For
>> those of us that are interested in keeving and slow fermentation, it
>> could be worth making some experimentation with overripe apples vs
>> apples in their prime, keeve both batches side by side and note
>> differences in fermentation speed.
And Andrew replied:
>I suggest you put it on your list for next year, Claude!
I agree. I intend to do it. However, since I my orchard is not fertilised
and I know my apples are very low in N to start with, I might get results
quite different from other folks on this list. It would be interesting if
others could do similar tests to find if this could be generalised.
What I would like to do as a test is to split a batch of freshly picked
apples in their prime, store a part in the refrigerator and let the other
part become overripe at (almost) room temperature. Then press both parts on
the same day and ferment. This procedure would eliminate the temperature
factor from the test, as later batches normally get lower temperatures.
Any comments or suggestions?
Claude Jolicoeur
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End of Cider Digest #1436
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