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Cider Digest #1467
Subject: Cider Digest #1467, 25 September 2008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1467 25 September 2008
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: 2 posts in Cider Digest #1466 (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: is it a keeve (Bill)
Re: Is It a Keeve? (Dick Dunn)
Cider Book, Round 2 (Ben Watson)
Fwd: Cider production questions ("sebastian hougham")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: 2 posts in Cider Digest #1466
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:58:38 -0400
>Subject: year old cider
>From: sam waterston <benedick@rcn.com>
>can anyone advise us on how to treat 3, 6 gallon, carboys of cider
>that has sat on its lees for a year, with air locks topped up, and
>having fermented to total dryness. it is very tart. if we were to
>add sugar before bottling, should we do it in the carboys or in the
>bottle? how much? any other tips? thanks sam, connecticut
Sam,
It all depends on what you want as a finished product...
If you just add sugar and bottle, most likely it will ferment in bottle and
produce a dry petillant cider.
If you want a sweet or semi-sweet cider, it is probably too late.
Ideally, you should have measured the acidity before fermentation and if
too high there exist some chemicals that can neutralise part of the acidity.
Personnally, I like dry petillant cider. For this you may siphon you cider
in a large bucket, mix in some sugar and a bit of yeast (optionnal, but it
is more reliable) and bottle in sturdy Champagne bottles with wire stoppers.
I use about 2.5 cups of corn sugar in a 6 gal batch, heat it with a bit of
water just to dilute it and mix it in.
>Subject: Is It a Keeve?
>From: "Kevin Luke" <kluke@amerytel.net>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:53:42 -0500
>
>I pressed 50 gallons of juice this year, and have a combination of 5 and 6
>gallon carboys fermenting. One either has an infection or it is keeving on
>its own, I'm hoping someone can help me determine which.
Kevin,
It does look like a spontaneous keeve. I get those quite often. I was only
able to look at the first picture however - It seems one has to register in
order to look at the whole album and I didn't really want to do that.
If you want to share pictures maybe you could have a look at Google Picasa
web albums - I use it and I am quite pleased with it. You may have a look
at my albums at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/cjoliprsf
Claude Jolicoeur,
Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: Re: is it a keeve
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:20 -0700
What's pictured looks like the foam scum from a violent start, will be
hard to clean out if left to dry until ferment is finished, I'd rack
into a clean carboy and continue the ferment .... and start colder next time
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Is It a Keeve?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:46:47 -0600
"Kevin Luke" <kluke@amerytel.net> asked in the last digest...
> I pressed 50 gallons of juice this year, and have a combination of 5 and 6
> gallon carboys fermenting. One either has an infection or it is keeving on
> its own, I'm hoping someone can help me determine which.
>
> I added Lalvin 1118 yeast and blow-off tubes until things settled down, then
> I added air locks. One carboy overflowed the airlock, and it has what looks
> like tannish-brown brain-matter on the surface.
Not at all likely it's a "keeve", more like just a typical boisterous
start to fermentation. Happens all the time, and depending on how much
of suspended solids got carried into the juice, it can be quite brown.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Book, Round 2
From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:01:19 -0400
Dear Cidermaking Friends,
Our esteemed Digest Janitor reminded me that I should post an announcement
about the new edition of my book -- Cider, Hard and Sweet -- that has just
been published.
I won't make a big sales pitch here, but did want to point out some of the
changes and additions I made this past spring.
The major addition are the two new chapters in the book: one on perry, the
other titled "Cidermaking: Beyond the Basics". I went back on forth on
including this last chapter, because my goal in the original book was not to
intimidate people who just wanted to make a starter batch of cider. In other
words, not introduce all of the complexity of "Scaling Up". But it became
clear to me over the years that some people who had mastered basic
cidermaking wished that I had a discussion on barrel fermentation, for
instance. I also have a discussion on that holy grail of cidermaking -- how
to produce a sweet (or at least not bone-dry) cider at home. As every
regular reader of the CD knows, this simple question is incredibly complex
once you unpack all the possibilities and variables. So hopefully I've done
the topic justice.
The perry chapter I included because there is so little understanding or
appreciation of this wonderful beverage in the U.S. I confess that I don't
know much about making perry, having just tried a few experimental batches
at home, but I comforted myself with the knowledge that I do know more than
99.995 percent of the population -- and that the information itself is
valuable.
I am greatly indebted to many Digest contributors for their advice
throughout the years, and I did go back and carefully look through the
Archives for answers and strategies on specific questions I had. Particular
thanks go to Dick Dunn, Andrew Lea, Charles McGonegal, Gary Awdey, and Terry
Bradshaw (who also contributed a few photos to the new edition). You have
all been lavishly praised in the book's Acknowledgments, along with many
other people.
Otherwise, most of the rest of the book has gotten a thorough update. I've
learned a lot myself -- and more from fellow cidermakers, both amateur and
commercial -- over the past nine years, and that is reflected in this new
edition of the book. I expanded the Apple Varieties for Cider table, added a
specific gravity/Brix table to the appendix, and provided much more
information on cider culture, spirits (including ice cider), and much more.
I'll be signing books at Cider Days on November 1-2, for anyone who is
planning to attend this year (more on that in the coming days!). Or if you
want to order the book through your local indie bookstore (or even Amazon),
the ISBN is 978-0-88150-819-2.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: Fwd: Cider production questions
From: "sebastian hougham" <sebastianhougham@googlemail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:45:10 +0100
Hi guys
Sorry we are starting to realise how amateur we are using the Andrew
Lea information from the internet
few questions-
what kind of quantity can we expect per ton of apples?
We do not fully understand the dosage rate of the thiamine and
ammonium sulphate. It reads 0.2 mg per litre of thiamine and up to 300
mg of ammonium salt per litre. What are the 0.2 mg and the 300mg. Is
this another chemical as it reads as if there is something being added
to a litre of thiamine and ammonium sulphate.
what size barrels should we use we are crushing 5 ton and have the
option of 200 litre 500 litre or a 1000?
What is the best chemicals to use for sterilising the barrels ( we can
not source Chempro)
We are sourcing pectolytic enzyme out here so we need to know the
levels to add as they wont come with instructions.
The reason we need all this info is we have not managed to find a
experienced cider maker from Europe to come and help us.Info provided
below
Hi we are making cider in Serbia and are looking for an experienced
cider ,maker to come and give us a hand it is an opportunity for
someone to come and visit the beautiful city of novi sad 1 hour south
of Belgrade.
We cannot pay for the work but will pay for flights and feed and
supply beer cider and fine Serbian food.
We are looking for someone to come for a weekend at the end of
September and a weekend in November/December. We are brothers from
Scotland Aberdeen my brother Oliver now lives in serbia renting
apartments out and organising tourism trips.
I have studied wine and business at plumpton college Sussex and have
experience making wine.
Please get in touch if interested, Serbia is an amazing country with
plenty to do when not making cider! please contact me at
sebastianhougham@gmail.com mobile 00381 631 911 504 (Expensive to call
Serbia e mail preferable)
thanks very much Sebastian Hougham
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End of Cider Digest #1467
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