Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1414
Subject: Cider Digest #1414, 13 October 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1414 13 October 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Australian Cider Competition ("John Jeffs")
RE: Film yeasts ("McGonegal, Charles P")
Homemade grinder/press ("Eric Fouch")
Re: More on film yeasts etc (Claude Jolicoeur)
fermenting kingston black (Seth Jones)
Re: More on film yeasts etc (Dick Dunn)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Australian Cider Competition
From: "John Jeffs" <johnjeffs@westnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 20:52:14 +0930
Entries are now being received for the Australian Cider Judging
competition which will be held in Lenswood (South Australia) on November
30. Entries are open to commercial and ammatuer cider makers from all
around the world. For more information go to www.cideraustralia.com.au
Cheers
John Jeffs
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Film yeasts
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:14:11 -0400
In CD 1413, Andrew Lea writes:
>>You talked of UV sterilisation, but do you know it works for this
application? My understanding was that it was >>fairly ineffective
against yeasts.
I did a less-than-scientific test last year when our new UV treatment
unit was added to the cidermill. The test was a wild fermentation on
samples that were and weren't UV treated. Common apples. SO2 added to
~0.5ppm active based on pH. Temp was about 65F. DAP added sparingly
based on odor during fermentation. Fermentation was much slower than
all commercial yeasts except the ProElif. The UV treated ran about 25%
behind in brix reduction - or a day or two.
(Both wild ferments were very sulfery compared to the commercial yeasts,
with a lot of acetates in the nose. Both aged to straight vinegar. So
much for using the native yeast in our orchard.)
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow
------------------------------
Subject: Homemade grinder/press
From: "Eric Fouch" <FouchE@ghsp.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:52:39 -0400
Craig-
I just put together a grinder and fruit press this fall. I built the
press first, and used a garbage disposal for the first batch. Due to
the thermal overloading of the disposal, it took several hours to press
4.75 gallons. The disposal ground very fine, and extraction was very
easy. Hardly any pressure was needed.
But I didn't like fooling around with the disposal. So I built a
grinder using a 3 inch diameter polypropylene rod, drilling and
installing three rows of stainless steel screws. I tossed some pictures
onto a webpage I'm working on:
http://fouchfamilyfarm.250free.com/BEER/beer.html
It takes a lot more pressure to press juice from the more coarsely
ground pomace, of course. I ran about 100 pounds of pears through this
Monday, and got 6 gallons of juice.
I need to brace the corners and 4x4 unions with steel brackets. Right
now it's a little scary pumping the jack to full pressure. I'm sure I
could pop the press frame apart if I didn't go slow.
I had the steel hoops welded up in an Amish shop. I cut the staves out
of oak flooring, and built the press frame out of 4x4's. I used and old
laminated counter top for the catch base, and installed a drain.
Since construction this fall, It has pressed 9 gallons of cider, 6
gallons of perry, and 7 gallons of wine. OK, don't point out that it's
not wine until the yeast makes alcohol, and I won't point out that CO2,
while denser than air does not form a protective blanket, but mixes
completely with the air, since gases expand to fill the entire space
they are given. 8 ^ )
Thank you,
Eric J Fouch
------------------------------
Subject: Re: More on film yeasts etc
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:09:36 -0400
In Cider Digest #1412, 29 September 2007
>Subject: More on film yeasts etc
>From: "Mike Faul" <mfauL@faul.net>
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:21:14 -0700
>
>I have spent a bit of time trying to figure out why some of my ciders end up
>with the surface film we have discussed in the past and others do not. I
>have also been trying to determine not only what the cause is but how to
>prevent it in the future.
>....
Maybe I should tell my story about film yeasts at this point of the
discussion.
During 2 years in 1991 and 1992, I lived in a rented appartment where I had
not enough place to do my cider, and no cool location. So I made an
arrangment with a friend to use his basement for this purpose. Apparently,
this basement was perfect for the purpose as it kept cool during winter.
Before that time, I had not had film yeast problems, but the first year in
this friend's basement, 40% of my ciders got contaminated, and 70% the
second year. After this second year, I had to conclude location had
something to do with the problem, and I stopped using my friend's basement.
The following 2 years, still in my small apartment, I made only a few
batches each year, and still got some film yeast but less than before. Then
in 1995 I moved in my current home where I have a very nice unheated room
in the basement which keeps aroud 45F during winter. Since that time, I
have only had an occasional contaminated batch which I often can link to an
identified problem causing air contamination.
>From this, my conclusions are:
- - My friend's basement naturally had a very high population of
contaminents, which made it extremely difficult to protect the cider with
normal practices.
- - These contaminents were brought with my equipment back into the apartment
where I lived at the time and managed to contaminate part of the ciders for
the following 2 years. Probably the fact that temperatures were high (about
72F) in that apartment helped the contaminents.
Now, the problem is solved, but the question remains - why would a certain
location like my friend's basement would host a high population of
contaminents that can cause film yeast?
To Mike - if you happen to live in a place like my friend's basement, my
guess is that it will be extremely difficult to keep the contaminents out
of your ciders. Maybe you could try to make a few batches in another
location to check if this is the cause - for this experiment to be
conclusive, however, you will need to be extremely careful not to bring
contaminents from your actual home to the other place...
Claude Jolicoeur,
Quebec.
------------------------------
Subject: fermenting kingston black
From: Seth Jones <sethjones@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:35:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Hello
I've been able to acquire a load of kingston black apples which I intend
to press as a single variety cider this week. I was wondering if anybody
had a suggestion as to what yeast to use (I basically use lalvin 1118 for
everything) and any other tips for working with this apple. Pretty excited
to get this cider going and would love to get input.
Also, I have access to a bunch of spring water plastic carboys. I know
that they are not ideal as they let in oxygen but how real and serious
is this problem. Thing is I've got them and they are free. I'm using them
for first ferment but have been advised not use them for second. Any advice?
seth jones
petersburgh, ny
------------------------------
Subject: Re: More on film yeasts etc
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:11:20 -0600
Mike - For all you've done against this film yeast problem, and I know
you're pretty serious about what you're doing, I've got a dumb question.
(Dumb questions are one of my specialties.)
Are you SURE it's a film yeast?
For example, does it appear and then sort of stabilize, or does it grow
substantially? Can you observe it under a microscrope and/or culture it?
The reason I'm going back to such a basic question is just wondering: If
what you've got is so hard to kill, despite various precautions, could it
be that it's not really alive in the first place?!? (Maybe you've convinced
yourself of what it is, and just spared us the rest of the details of a
harrowing pursuit.) But for example, is there anything that could be
pulled up from somewhere in your system and rise to the surface--a bit of
wax, pectin joined with something else, etc.?
Claude and Andrew have both written about how tenacious film yeast can be,
and I've had a couple run-ins too; unhappily I agree with them. Still,
it seems you should have been able to get rid of it by the measures you've
taken so far.
(It bears mentioning that Mike is a commercial producer--he's not doing
a couple carboys in his basement.)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1414
*************************
