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Cider Digest #1369
Subject: Cider Digest #1369, 14 February 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1369 14 February 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1368, 11 February 2007 (Denise Elliott)
Film yeasts (Andrew Lea)
RE: COLAs - An american perversion in many ways. ("McGonegal, Charles P")
RE: Film Yeasts ("McGonegal, Charles P")
film yeast on top of tanks ("UNCLE JOHN'S - DEDE BECK")
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1368, 11 February 2007
From: Denise Elliott <delliott1@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:21:22 -0500
In regards to Voles:
I live next to a county park (forest) and in front of corn fields
next to a creek. Perfect spots for voles.
I have found two things to help with ordinary garden variety voles
here. They have torn up and eaten the root system of almost every
perennial and tree I have planted in the past three years. What I
have done is two fold. A good hunting cat and a blue-heeler dog. They
go to town on the voles, the two of them waiting by the nest entrance
(which I never seemed to be able to find without them!) and they snap
the voles up as they exit. The cat and dog hunting together have
extreme amounts of patience. The cat is easier than the blue heeler,
the dog needs lots of room to run and is pretty crazy in general. I
found the dog to be too difficult for me to handle on a small piece
of property and she is now living on a farm.
Second item I used was a "Tomcat" trap. It is made of plastic and has
serrated edges. As the nasty little creatures run underneath a pot
placed over one of their trails they run into the teeth and it snaps
down on them. It isn't pretty and it isn't a fast death
unfortunately. But it does work (unless your neighbor is a bleeding
heart and steals your traps when you arent home). Tip the pot
directly over one of the trails recently created. Place the teeth so
they will run right through them. Nice thing about these traps is one
squeeze and the rodent is ejected, no touching it, then you can re-
use the trap.
Third item is to try to bait mouse traps with granny smith apples-
again placed under an overturned pot on the trail.
The final thing you can try (this is a new one for me, so I cant say
it works) is to sprinkle cayenne pepper into the roots when you are
planting, and later in the season dig some cayenne pepper into the
soil around the base of the trees. The bleeding heart neighbor told
me this, not sure it will work but I will try it. Sam's club has
large containers of cayenne pretty cheap.
As others have written it is of utmost importance you dont allow any
of the grass to grow up around anything you want to protect. Same
with mulches, boards, anything they can trail under and hide easily.
They have used older patches of thyme as both grazing and hiding
spots, under the hot tub, under the wood pile, under the shed. They
are prolific breeders too. I leave bare spots purposely because they
wont run through them.
Can you tell I dislike the destructive little buggers?
Denise in Upstate NY
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Subject: Film yeasts
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:07:17 +0000
Mike Faul wrote:
>
> I have a batch of cider that was filtered at .5 micron into two 350 gal tanks.
>
> In tank one I have crystal clear cider that tastes really good and in tank
> two I have a what appears to be a thin film yeast over the surface of the
> liquid. It has a mild smell that I can't place. Not bad but not normal.
>
> If I tap the tank from the side and take off a sample it tastes the same as
> the other tank and is still good.
> Anyone seen any film yeasts that like bone dry ciders?
Yes it sounds like a film yeast to me, if it has a greasy powdery
appearance. (If it has a gelatinous texture that's Acetobacter or
Vinegar Mother - and then you *do* have problems!). These organisms
(various species of Candida and Pichia) will actually metabolise the
alcohol so they do not need any sugar to work. The aroma is usually that
of ethyl acetate.
A 0.5 micron filter would remove them so the likelihood is that
contamination occurred downstream in tank 2 itself or pipework etc if
not sterile, coupled with access to air. Prevention now consists of
skimming off the yeast if you can, dosing with 100 ppm SO2 and and
keeping the tank totally sealed with no air contact.
Film yeasts are not a disaster if caught early enough. I had one myself
(due to failure of a pneumatic sealing ring on a variable capacity tank)
last season but the cider when bottled was fine. As you noticed, most of
the flavour change is actually in the physical vicinity of the film itself.
Andrew Lea,
nr Oxford, UK.
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: RE: COLAs - An american perversion in many ways.
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:42:12 -0600
And we're not talking about fizzy sugar water, here.
Thanks for the note a few CDs back Rich.
I think I've got a fair handle on labeling and COLAs for my day to day
activities and products. And I do have some products under 7% ABV with
ingredients labels and some over 7% with TTB COLAs. (Some specialty,
some just with good apples). I gotten labels approved with identities
of 'apple wine','cider wine', 'sparkling apple wine' and 'apple dessert
wine' (And the process is less than perfect. I came across a MI cider
recently with a label that should not have been approved.)
I'm pretty well sorted in my own state. My question was about exporting
to other states. In particular, a number of states require copies of
the COLAs included with the forms to register brands and assign
territories to distributors. Beers have COLAs, and so do wines and
spirits. But cider doesn't always. The same question arises when
importing from overseas.
Anybody trod this road already?
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Film Yeasts
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:56:13 -0600
Mike, I see film yeasts nearly every year. I ferment and bulk age in
550 gallon Transtore 304SS IBCs and in 55 gal 304SS barrels. I use
venting barrel bungs fitted into the lid Triclover fitting on the
Transtore and into the side port of the barrels using a PVC adapter to
fit the threads. I nearly always see a white film develop about this
time of year. It has a mild musty/grassy odor. It doesn't appear to
oxidize the cider immediate under it. If disturbed, it sinks. Sulfite,
lysozyme and CO2 blanketing haven't stopped it. It doesn't always grow
to the same extent.
I'm running liter trials with 15 yeasts this year. Interestingly, not
all the trials are developing the film. Cote des Blancs _did_ - and
that is the primary yeast I use.
I haven't dug out a microscope to examine the film.
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: film yeast on top of tanks
From: "UNCLE JOHN'S - DEDE BECK" <cider@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:34:22 -0600
CD 1368 - Mike Faul reported a yeast like powdery film on top of a tank of
cider.
Mike I have had this problem myself. This is not yeast at all. This is a
spoilage organism. Which one I do not know. I had the same symptoms, it
has an odor that is not necessarily offensive. If left unchecked it may
become a real problem. Ellie Butz from Purdue University Enology
Department could probably tell which one it is. She gave us a great
presentation at the Great Lakes Expo on spoilage organisms. A outline of
her presentation should be available through the Expo website
www.glexpo.com . Look at the ABSTRACTS sections on the web page. Her
presentation was called "Mastering Wine Spoilage Organisms". What I have
done in the past is to .45 micron sterile filter the cider and bottle the
product as quickly as possible. Add Sorbate if some back sweetening is to
occur. If it must stay in storage vessels for a time try to make sure you
put a blanket of neutral gas over the top of the cider. I would also
consider spritzing some So2 laced water on the top layer of cider. Just add
So2 to water, put it in a pump up sprayer or a hand sprayer and spritz
away. This will help keep it in check, however, it will probably come back
after some time. You will also need to thoroughly clean and sanitize all
tanks, hoses, pumps and other equipment that has touched this cider. There
is lots of labs out there that can tell you exactly what your organism is
and some will give you recommendations for control. Good Luck and do not
worry too much.
Mike Beck mjbeck@ujcidermill.com
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End of Cider Digest #1369
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