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Cider Digest #1389
Subject: Cider Digest #1389, 12 June 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1389 12 June 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Apple ketal (Andrew Lea)
RE: AOCs, AVAs, and ACAs ("McGonegal, Charles P")
Pear Esters (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: Apple ketal
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:24:19 +0100
Charles wrote:
> In CDs #1024, 1321 and 1346 (spread over several years) you refer to 1,3
> octanediol, and its acetaldehyde condensate. I tracked that back
> through my preferred chemical vendor and a couple of flavor house online
> databases to a compound that has a list of synonyms literally a foot and
> a half long. (Which is why CAS numbers are so handy. 6413-10-1) I
> thought that the 'apple ketal' synomym was kind of telling.
Just to set the record absolutely straight here. The compound that
Charles refers to as "apple ketal" or "applinal" is a synthetic
apple-like aroma compound whose chemical name is ethyl 2-methyl 1,3
dioxolane 2-acetate and does indeed have the CAS number 6413-10-1.
But the naturally occurring condensation product of acetaldehyde and 1,3
octanediol in ciders is 2-methyl 4-pentyl 1,3 dioxane (which so far as I
know is not manufactured commercially and for which I cannot find a CAS
number). The two compounds are quite distinct.
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: RE: AOCs, AVAs, and ACAs
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:48:21 -0500
In CD 1388 Shawn Carney writes:
>
Let's give the state a fitting name - the state of "Tomfoolery".
...
Many people remembered the bad wine and said pew... Tomfoolery can't
produce decent wine I'm going back to my Yellow Kangaroo and Bonnie
Dew'n. Now everyone is a loser, even the good wineries in the AVA as
well as the wineries outside the AVA that existed before the AVA was
formed. You can't put a boundary around quality wine and you're only
screwing people and more than likely yourself if you try.
<
Oh, that's rich. What a great statement of 'just say no'! I love it.
The only thing I really disagree with is that you speak of AVAs in the
past tense.
I was starting to write a bit about how grape wine label claims are more
controlled than products under 7% ABV - like cider. And how easy it is
to go over 7% in a cider with good apples - and suddenly you're
prohibited from making a number of label claims (like 'estate bottled')
just when it seems most appropriate.
But I'm not going to.
I do think it's a topic an Association or Guild might address within its
membership. Experiment, get a feel for how the market responds - or
doesn't. But not try to legislate.
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Pear Esters
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:25:32 +0100
Michael wrote:
> Would the "pear drops" aroma not be ethyl acetate, which is almost
> universally described in the material I've seen as smelling of "pear drops"?
Ethyl acetate has a more acrid and unpleasant aroma, at least at high
concentration, than the 'pear drop' aroma which is rather sweeter and
(as used in candies) more likely to be iso-amyl acetate.
> If so, I'd like the chemists to weigh in. Isn't that an inherently
> rather unstable compound, heading "downhill" to acetic acid?
Not really. In water there is a dissociation equilibrium to give one
molecule each of ethanol and acetic acid, but this is weighted in favour
of the ethyl acetate remaining largely intact. Depends though on pH and
whether anything else in the mix might drive the dissociation. You may
be getting confused by the fact that *microbiologically* ethyl acetate
is often a marker for an ongoing process of bacterial acetification. You
can smell the ethyl acetate long before you're truly aware of the acetic
acid and this often gives rise to some confusion.
> Or is there some other ester here that gives the distinctive aroma? I
> sure know it's distinctive.
Yes. The actual pear ester is ethyl dodecenoate or closely related
components. It's characteristic of dessert pears and often carries
through after fermentation to give a very characteristic odour. Oddly
enough, it seems that the "true" UK perry pears do not generally posses
this aroma and it is not significantly displayed in those resultant
perries.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK.
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1389
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