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Cider Digest #1406
Subject: Cider Digest #1406, 1 September 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1406 1 September 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
How to make an English style cider (Dick Dunn)
Cidery Tasting Rooms. ("McGonegal, Charles P")
New to the Digest ("John B. Biggins")
Re: Cider Digest #1405, 27 August 2007 (Stephen Wood)
P.22 Availability (Rob Stiles)
Apple Ripening Dates ("Peter Johnson")
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Subject: How to make an English style cider
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:28:31 -0600
Here's an excerpt from notes on a cider in the American Homebrewers
Association's "National Homebrew Competition". This cider received a Gold
Medal in the Standard category, English style, as well as Cidermaker of the
Year--that is, overall winner. It started out, by the description, a
straightforward Northern Spy cider. But then:
"This cider was stored for four years at which point it had developed
all the flavors necessary for an English style cider. Bacteria or
wild yeast may have been introduced at some point that turned the
flavor from a slightly sweetened, apple-like cider into the English
style cider it is now."
So much for the mystique of English (West Country) style ciders! They are
nothing more than over-aged, tainted American style ciders.
Yeeeesh! or should I say "DOH!" ?
(And how do you get the characteristic English bitterness out of an American
mild sharp? Can't tell at a distance without a taste, but I'd guess that
letting the cider sit on any lees for four years would give bitterness...
not the right sort, but enough to convince someone inexperienced.)
Some additional notes from the cidermaker indicate that after its prolonged
aging, "it had developed a horsy character (Brettanomyces) which is perfect
for an English cider."
No. Brett is contamination, period. The NHC was a BJCP-sanctioned
competition; BJCP guidelines for Standard/English say:
"The common slight farmyard nose of an English West Country cider is
the result of lactic acid bacteria, not a Brettanomyces contamination."
Seems clear that "not Brett..." isn't the same as "perfect for".
OK, what went wrong here? BJCP? No, I don't think the BJCP is at fault
at all in this case. The guidelines are clear enough, aren't they?
The cidermaker should know better. A national winner should at least have
- -read- the style definition for the category he's entering. Even if the
cider did have an exaggerated farmyard nose from Brett, he shouldn't be
bragging it up.
AHA/NHC: I think this is the crux of the problem--a downfall of judge
ability, training, and supervision. Now, add to giving a national award
to an admittedly tainted cider, they've published in _Zymurgy_ a very wrong
idea that's going to encourage cidermakers to contaminate their ciders.
At best it'll take a couple -years- to get this straightened out.
When we did the style guidelines, we actually looked into this and made a
point of getting the matter of Brett straight. So it's particularly
annoying to have the AHA publish a giant step backwards.
Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated incident. Rather, it's become a
nearly-annual prat-fall over cider for the AHA's National Homebrew
Competition.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Cidery Tasting Rooms.
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:04:00 -0500
In CD 1405, Bill Barton gives some rough tasting room stats - 20,000
visitors/year.
In contrast, I'm down around 5,000. Ten miles off I-94 between Chicago
and Milwaukee - lots of traffic nearby - but no specific wine trail or
signage. Almost no marketing budget - this is the first year I'm
spending more than a couple thousand, total.
I see seasonal variation in tasters-to-buyers. When we get into the
apple harvest season, the number of visitors sky rockets - but the
bottles/person drops a bit.
Bill - do you have an estimate of how many groups (I find most visitors
come as couples) leave without purchasing? My guess for ÆppelTreow is
3-5%. I keep trying to get a better grasp of this metric - but the data
collection has been hard to sustain. (I count the number of tasting
glasses washed compared to the number of cash register transactions)
I see your point about fully accounting for tasting room costs - and a
full reckoning making it look more expensive than first glance. It
really becomes sensitive to how much you can keep 'in the family', I
think. And how much time/adverstising you have to spend for your
wholesale accounts, in comparison.
I note that nobody's talking about direct to consumer shipping as an
important component :-)
ÆppelTreow was started as an addition to an existing orchard/sweet
cider mill, for well under $100,000 investment and tons of sweat equity
(and a regular career-type job to pay the insruance and mortgage :-).
That's without the land/orchard infrastructure/cider mill. I recall a
winery economics article a couple of years back that claimed that on a
capital-to-revenue basis, wineries were up with oil refineries (>~1).
I'm not sure that cideries are much different. Can a realistic
wholesale-focused cidery be done for less than a million $?
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow
------------------------------
Subject: New to the Digest
From: "John B. Biggins" <jbbiggins@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:21:24 -0400
For some reason, I never bothered subscribing to this, but now I am!
If there are any cider enthusiasts in SE Penn or the Delmarva area,
please feel free to contact me
jbbiggins-at-comcast-dot-net
Me: been a homebrewer for over 10 years, but accommodations in the
academic life have prevented me from exploring this passion to the
fullest, so I've basically been a rogue fermenter. Ciders have been
ideal, as I can just buy juice from an orchard and manipulate the
fermentation conditions, so in lieu of proper apples for a well-
rounded cider (bitters, tarts, etc.) and no apple press at my
disposal, I have been experimenting with various yeasts and simple
adjuncts towards creating different libations. Starting proper
pomace apples are what is lacking from my ciders, yet surprisingly
the altered fermentation conditions have provided interesting and
varied results that I look forward to repeating with good cider
varietals when I eventually get settled down in my final position.
Short but sweet.
Hope to have a good dialogue with you all.
~john
~~~~~~~~~~~~
John B. Biggins, Ph.D.
Robert Black ~ Damon Runyon Postdoctoral Fellow
Dept. of Chemistry and Biochemistry
University of Delaware
Brown Lab; Koh Group
Newark, DE 19716
302-831-1738
http://jbbiggins.home.comcast.net/
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1405, 27 August 2007
From: Stephen Wood <swood@povertylaneorchards.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:56:06 -0400
8/31/07
This harvest season, we will again have several thousand bushels of
bittersweet and bittersharp cider apples available from our cider orchards
in Lebanon and Plainfield, NH. It's been a friendly growing season for
cider, and (at least at the moment) the fruit quality appears remarkably
good. As ever, we will give preference to cidermakers who have bought
apples from us in the past; thereafter, the apples will be available first
come, first served. As with all of our crops, we will only pick what we
need, and what we are fairly certain of being able to sell, so cidermakers
who want some of this fruit should contact me soon -- we will honor
reservations.
The most abundant early varieties this year are Ashton Bitter and Ellis
Bitter (early/mid-September); late are Yarlington Mill, Chisel Jersey, and
Dabinett (October). We¹ll have moderate volumes of other varieties,
(perhaps including Kingston Black, Somerset Redstreak, Bulmers' Norman,
Major, and Michelin). We follow the English and French practice of letting
the fruit hang until most of it is dropping, then gently shaking the trees
and harvesting the fruit from the ground. Unlike commercial European
operations, we often harvest more than once, depending on regularity of
ripening, and we pick from the ground by hand, to try to leave as much rot
as possible behind. In my experience, this is the best way to achieve the
highest possible degree of ripeness. That said, these are drops, and need to
be milled and pressed pretty quickly after harvest (the excellent Yarlington
Mill in particular); they also sometimes need to be washed at the press,
depending on the muddiness of the harvest season.
We will consider (with sufficient volumes) custom hand-picking, custom
picking into your bins, or custom pressing the fruit for you (or having it
pressed), and sulfiting the juice according to your instructions -- in each
case, we would need your bins or tanks here in advance. We can also
accommodate or arrange tanker trucks or dump trailers for larger volumes.
Prices are unchanged from 2006 (call or email, if you're interested). Our
prices are all F.O.B. Lebanon, NH, and assume that the fruit leaves the farm
in your containers. Anyone who wants some of the September fruit should
contact me pretty briskly.
Stephen Wood
Farnum Hill Ciders
98 Poverty Lane
Lebanon, New Hampshire 03766
603 448 1511
swood@farnumhillciders.com
------------------------------
Subject: P.22 Availability
From: Rob Stiles <rman_55976@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
Does anyone know of a source of the rootstock P.22? The only place that
I have found it on the internet is TRECO, but I only wish to purchase
10 or so. If anyone has a few extra, I would also be willing to buy it
from them. I would like to graft a couple scions onto this rootstock
to see if I can get a few apples before my standards come into bearing.
I am also planning on trying it out as an interstem on antonovka.
Thank you,
Rob Stiles
Rochester, MN
Zone 4
------------------------------
Subject: Apple Ripening Dates
From: "Peter Johnson" <johnson_peter@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:33:42 -0500
Does anyone know the approximate ripening dates for the following varieties?
Brown's
Bramley's Seedling
Stoke Red
Kingston Black
My orchard is in Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 4b.
Thanks,
Peter Johnson
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End of Cider Digest #1406
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