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Cider Digest #1401
Subject: Cider Digest #1401, 12 August 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1401 12 August 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: understanding your business (Dick Dunn)
Irrigation Valve question ("chris horn")
FW: understanding your business ("Mike Beck")
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Subject: Re: understanding your business
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 12:05:48 -0600
In the last digest, "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
objected (mildly) to a couple of my points:
> >From CD 1399, Dick Dunn writing:
> >>
> If your customers want "cool-aid" either you don't know who your
> customers are or you don't know what business you're in (flip sides of
> the same problem).
> <<
>
> Going into the cider business not knowing what your market is turns out
> to be startingly easy...
I feel I was talking about not-knowing-your-market at a more basic level
than you were. I'm not talking about Æppeltreow vs Farnum Hill; I'm
talking about Farnum Hill vs Strongbow.
And why would you even start if you don't have good reason and facts to
support the belief that your product is marketable?
What is it that sets "the cider business" apart from any other business
in an emerging market category? It's always risky to think your business
is unique; that you can't apply lessons, information, analysis, and
strategy from other categories of businesses.
>...I'm not a 'focus group it to death' kind of
> person. I see Dick's point in the folly of perpetually chasing the peak
> of consumer expectation. But holding your ground with a single product
> that is appreciated by too narrow a slice of the market is just as fatal
> to a business as chasing the mode of the curve...
Sure, but I wasn't talking about holding your ground in spite of obvious
business failure. And in particular I was trying to single out the idea
of moving toward "cool-aid" cider. That's a particularly bad idea for a
young/small business, because it's all marketing, price-point, and shelf-
space competition. It's a game for the big guys.
>...And it's very hard to
> tell how deep the market 'pool' is until you take the plunge!
Don't dive head-first off the high board the first time you go in the
pool. (I once tried helping with a fellow who wanted to set up a
high-quality cider business and start out with 1000 cases of cider as
a marketing test! He wanted to rent space and acquire equipment to
produce and store this quantity right out of the gate, with no experience.
I was unable to convince him that it was too risky and expensive to start
that way, that big. Fortunately [but not surprisingly] he was unable to
find investors.)
You have to be reasonably convinced that there is a significant market for
high-quality cider. We sorta know that from some of the players already
in it. As to what particular products you make for that market, you can
be prepared to adapt your blends and styles. Keep separate the distinction
between changing your blends, and changing (lowering) your quality.
> I do not consider broadening my portfolio of cider products - each
> carefully choosen and crafted - to be chasing a market I'll never catch.
But how far down in price/quality are you prepared to move?
> Standards of Quality are not the same as Standards of Identity.
True. But, while in theory they are quite different, in practice a
Standard of Identity often turns out to be the lowest level of standard
of quality...and sometimes the only standard well-accepted.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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Subject: Irrigation Valve question
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:40:55 -0700
This is sort of related to cider and orchard stuff... Does anyone else have
issues with moles/gophers/voles filling their various irrigation valve boxes
full of dirt? I know that Oregon is famous for the underground critters we
have but mine love to fill them in a mater of a few days... I trap as much
as I can but they will alway be there. Normally I don't worry about it but
when I do have to open or close a valve (most are electrically controlled)
it's a pain to dig out inside of the box with a trowel. The critters seem
to squeeze in the smallest holes around pipes coming in or going out...
Thanks
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon USA
'Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; and drugs cause cramp,
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smell awful; You might as well live'
-Dorothy Parker
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Subject: FW: understanding your business
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:11:20 -0400
In CD#1398 Dennis Nicholson asked for discussion on economics and marketing
of the cider business.
? We need to hear more about the economics of cider making. More about the
marketing strategies of cider and perry products from people that have been
successful. The old rancor about what is cider and what is cool-aid makes
no sense if our customers want cool-aid.
There have been a few interesting responses. I would like to strengthen
Dick Dunn?s comments (CD #1399) on that whatever you should do quality
standards comes first and foremost. In CD#1400 ?Mark? stated that you
should ignore 90% market. (I?m paraphrasing) I think that is a fatal
business mistake. I think ?chasing epherma? would also be fatal. However,
the most fatal mistake one can make is ?making and selling only what you
like.? Make what you like, sure, call it your reserve line. You are
certainly not restricted to make a product that is high quality and may
appeal to broader range of palates without ?chasing epherma?. You do not
have to sell your soul to sell out your warehouse. Make no mistake, sales
pay for shiny SS Tanks, copper clad stills, efficient presses, tractors,
your kids college fund, mortgage, etc. Cultivating the 10% is just as
important as cultivating the other 90%. There is room in the cider industry
to be able to have broad appeal and to be stylistically unique. Charles
McGonegal (CD #1400) outlined the dynamics of a tasting room and other
markets. He is spot on. Your artistic sensibilities are not compromised if
what your doing is maintained with quality in mind.
Imho
Mike Beck
Uncle John?s Fruit House Winery and Distillery
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End of Cider Digest #1401
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