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Cider Digest #1364
Subject: Cider Digest #1364, 25 January 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1364 25 January 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Kingston Black ("Siloam Orchards")
re: Cidermaking in Spain (Dick Dunn)
Re: First timer wants to make sparkle and expand. (Dick Dunn)
Commercial question: COLAs ("McGonegal, Charles P")
Re: Enough alcohol? (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Kingston Black
From: "Siloam Orchards" <mail@siloamorchards.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:35:02 -0500
Hope you can post this in the next Cider Digest,
Thanks, Eric
[Janitor's note: No need to include that sort of request. If you send
a posting to the right address, it will get posted.]
I am in need of a large supply of Kingston Black August budwood, to be
shipped to Ontario Canada. Can anyone help? Please reply to Eric at
mail@siloamorchards.com
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Subject: re: Cidermaking in Spain
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:13:55 -0700
Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com> wrote:
> I seem to remember David Matthews wrote a nice article on the topic in
> the CAMRA Cider Guide 2000 (not the current one) if you can find one.
He's also got a shorter article about Basque cider in the current guide,
but the older article is better. In fact in most ways other than dated
information, the older (2000) GCG is better.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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Subject: Re: First timer wants to make sparkle and expand.
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:30:14 -0700
"Timothy" <tboger111@earthlink.net> wrote in the last digest:
...
> Next year, I want to try containing some of the C02 and make sparkling
> cider. I'm not exactly sure how to do this except that you have to
> bottle at just the right time. Too early and you break bottles, too late
> and you get no sparkle. Anyone have suggestions or suggested reading
> that explains this process better?
There are generally three ways to end up with a carbonated cider:
* Bottle while a bit of fermentation remains to finish. This is, as
you suggest, dicey. The proper time to bottle is determined by an
end-point for the fermentation that is in the future. Also, the
cider may not have cleared when it's time to bottle this way, so
you could end up with a lot of bottle sediment.
* Let fermentation finish and let the cider fall clear, then add a
measured dose of sugar (or juice if you have it and want to be a
purist) figured to give the amount of carbonation you want when it
ferments out.
* Force-carbonate: transfer the cider to a keg and put CO2 pressure
on it. A reasonable amount of CO2 dissolves in the cider over a few
days, faster with higher pressure, agitation, and keeping it colder.
When you get it up to the level of carbonation you want, just bottle
it from the keg. You'll lose a little bit of carbonation in the
process, but if the cider's cold and you're gentle about it, not much.
> Lastly, I was considering making a large batch in a 55 gallon food grade
> container. My thinking is I can do everything in one container. First
> stage with vent from hose to release foam, second stage with an airlock,
> and third, be able to tap and age it using a pressurized C02 tank
> apparatus used for beer to replace the vacuum. Anyone tried this with
> success or problems? Any thoughts?
Presumably you mean the plastic barrel type of container. This is OK for
short-term use, like through the fermentation and clearing, but not so good
for longer-term like aging. The problem is that the plastic is permeable
to oxygen. It's a matter of time, temperature, container thickness, and
container size. A large container like your 55 gallon is much better than
containers in the few-gallon range, both because the plastic is thicker
and because the surface:volume ratio is lower. Still, based on various
conversations and postings, I wouldn't keep cider in it for as much as a
year.
Another consideration is that you'd really want to rack the cider at least
once.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Commercial question: COLAs
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:50:25 -0600
I only do a little out of state distribution - and that state doesn't
require COLAs for brand registration.
But some states do.
So how does a cidery (domestic or European) deal with that? It's not
beer (which get COLAs), yet most cider is under 7% ABV, and the TTB
doesn't want to see it, to issue a wine COLA. The FDA doesn't get
involved with label approvals.
Can you get some kind of exemption certificate - or do you dodge and
hide in the obscurity of small volume?
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Enough alcohol?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:47:19 -0700
(sorry to dominate the digest this time...must be spring in the air or
something)
John Simmons <john1481@cox.net> wrote, a few digests back, and there wasn't
a direct reply to his main question:
[first-time cidermaker]
> ...My plan is for dry, still cider, which I will bottle. The
> issue is that, only recently, I learned that dry, still cider is
> recommended to have a slightly higher alcohol content to protect the
> final product in the bottle...
Yes but slightly higher than what (and why)? You don't get any protection
from residual sugar, and you don't get much protection from carbonation
until the level of carbonation gets up to kinda feisty.
>...My OG was 1.055, and it is down to
> 1.002 as of this week. That gives me about 6.5% ABV. So, the
> question - Is that enough?...
That should be fine.
The rule-of-thumb I've heard for a long time, and my experience seems to
bear it out, is that 1.045 is about the danger zone and 1.050 should be
fine as long as your technique and sanitation are good. (ok, that was
two thumbs) So you're yet a notch above "basically safe".
Also, unless I stumbled with my calc, your 0.053 gravity drop should put
you more like 6.7-6.8% alcohol. 6.8% seems to be a magic figure on various
commercial craft cider labels. Plus, you might yet lose that last 0.002
(and thereby pick up another couple tenths of a percent abv) by the time
the cider finishes and clears.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1364
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