Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1412
Subject: Cider Digest #1412, 29 September 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1412 29 September 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Pitching cider to wine snobs or beer geeks ("McGonegal, Charles P")
More on film yeasts etc ("Mike Faul")
RE: Perry Exposition @ Malvern (chris horn)
Re:Bulmer's Norman earlydrop (Bob Towler)
homemade grinder ("Craig Teerlink")
Learning to taste cider (Jason MacArthur)
Cider poems ("Eric Fouch")
First bittersweet harvest; pressing aids ("JAMES LUEDTKE")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Pitching cider to wine snobs or beer geeks
From: "McGonegal, Charles P" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:49:03 -0400
In CD 1411, Dave Schor asks if the established wine market might be a
good place to market traditional cider.
Dave, in my experience, pitching cider works well (much as you suggest)
to _novice_ wine drinkers. Or to wine snobs who have travelled through
northern France and Spain and know about cidre and sidra.
But just a couple of weeks ago I had bad experience reinforced at an
otherwise lovely wine show. And good experience reinforced at a beer
show.
Here's what I see - and it could be a local thing, I admit. At a wine
show, the wine drinkers who think they know a lot about wine stand back
aways from my booth and talk among themselves. Perhaps they think my
hearing isn't quite so good. They look at my banners and show
marketing, then say to each other 'oh, fruit wine. Sweet and simple.
Maybe we'll have some for dessert.' The fewer local wines, or more
global wines are offered - the more I overhear this. The higher end the
crowd, the more I hear it. Year after year.
On the other hand, at beer shows, beer geeks wander (stagger) up to my
stand, squint at my signs and say 'Cider? I don't know anything about
cider. Give me some!' And they are generally game for trying any and
all of my champagne-method, draft and pommeau types at any sweetness.
And they show up the next weekend at the cidery with friends and family.
So, on my personal to do list for next year's wine shows: Redo my
banners to directly attack the _assumptions_ that wine drinkers make
about what I make. Get their attention from a distance and attack what
they _think_ they know about me - and then let the samples do the rest
of the work. If anybody's had success at doing this, I'd love some tips
:-)
I still love (and use) Steve Wood's quote from Lise Funderburg's Cider
Day article a few years back, "We practically have to kneel on people's
chests and pry open their mouths to get them to drink this stuff," Mr.
Wood said. "And then they generally like it."
Charles McGonegal
AEppeltreow
------------------------------
Subject: More on film yeasts etc
From: "Mike Faul" <mfauL@faul.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:21:14 -0700
I have spent a bit of time trying to figure out why some of my ciders end up
with the surface film we have discussed in the past and others do not. I
have also been trying to determine not only what the cause is but how to
prevent it in the future.
I have found that even after caustic cleaning of tanks, hoses etc. and after
sanitizing with various sanitizers that I end up with the film yeast.
I have even gone as far as sterile filtration before going into the tank but
have seen the film yeast appear within a week, depending on certain factors.
The factors I have concluded which are causing this are threefold;
1. Exposure to the surrounding air at anytime during the transfer process
2. Increased head space temperature
3. Volume of headspace above cider surface
The one tank that I have repeatedly had problems with is under a skylight in
my building and the top of the tank gets heated by the sun during the day.
So in that case the headspace of the tank is warmed up to a very good
breeding temperature for this particular surface film organism. The tanks
are all jacketed and the liquid temperature is at a constant 45F.
O2 in the head space is also a big player in this equation as well.
What are the possible cures?
1. Keep your tanks out of the direct sunlight.
2. Keep the contents chilled
3. Remove the O2 - I have a low pressure regulator attached to each tank
that keeps a 1psi blanket of argon (other inert gas is good too) in the
headspace at all times.
4. Chemicals - okay I hate adding sulfites but 100-150ppm is the last resort
for me.
5. Sterile filter and bottle ASAP.
I am currently investigating Ultra-violet light inside the tanks. I think
this will be the best approach in conjunction with the inert gas. Short of
buying new tanks with variable capacity tops.
Thoughts?
Mike
www.rabbitsfootmeadery
www.redbranchcider.com
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Perry Exposition @ Malvern
From: chris horn <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:28:11 -0700
I went over for the Perry Exposition last fall and it was amazing. If you
have the chance to go over (or if you are in that neck of the woods to start
with...) you should go. Jim Chapman does a wonderfull display of perry pears
as well as the booths of different producers. It's great to try (and buy)
a number of different perries in one place and talk with the producers.
My photos from last year can be found at:
http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=56117630/a=15909148_15909148/t_=
15909148
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon'We would worry less about what others think of us if we
realized how seldom they do.'-Ethel Barrett
------------------------------
Subject: Re:Bulmer's Norman earlydrop
From: Bob Towler <mbtowler@shaw.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:05:26 -0700
I have the same experience as James Leudtke regarding early drop with
Bulmer's Norman. My one tree is on a M-111 rootsock in sandy, gravelly
soil on Pender Island, British Columbia, close to the US border (cool
Mediterranean climate). The tree has been bearing well for three years
but first apples drop in late August and continue to do so on just about
a daily basis until I pick what is left in early October. These apples
do not keep well so I need to keep them in a fridge until I do the first
batch of cider in mid October.
Bob Towler
------------------------------
Subject: homemade grinder
From: "Craig Teerlink" <Craig.Teerlink@hsc.utah.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:08:19 -0600
I am a novice cider maker with a home operation. I am trying to find an
inexpensive way to grind apples. I have heard online about people using
an old garbage disposal rigged up to grind the apples. Does anyone have
any experience with this method in terms of time efficiency and the
quality of the end product? Any information would be appreciated before
I begin this experiment.
Thank you
Craig
craig.teerlink@utah.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Learning to taste cider
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:54:39 -0400
I have never sold cider, so what I know of introducing cider to the
uninitiated comes from opening bottles over dinner with friends.
Even this enjoyable task, however, has given me considerable food for
thought as to how palates become adjusted to new tastes. For good
cider is a new taste, and I doubt that many of us, upon our initial
gustation of beer, wine, or for that matter hot peppers or strong
coffee, were overcome with delight, or appreciative of the
complexities contained therein. Not only that, but in those cases we
came to the experience of tasting having been socially conditioned to
expect to like those things, or at least knowing that there is
something there to like. This seems most evident to me with wine. I
know many people who do not like the stuff, yet none of them dismiss
fermented grape juice as a beverage. Rather, almost apologetically,
they explain their preferences as a personal shortcoming: "I never
learned to appreciate wine, I'll just have beer", or something like
that. Imagine how much easier it would be to sell cider if
prospective buyers came to the tasting room curious, perhaps even
afraid to reveal their own lack of appreciation for the juice in the
glass, and eager to impress their friends with their sophisticated
palates!
One of the things I have found most helpful in terms of getting
friends curious about my cider is to always open multiple bottles,
even if I know they won't get finished, and encourage people to taste
and compare the different batches. One bottle of cider says to
someone who has never tasted cider before "This is cider." They have
no benchmark to which to compare it, and no context to put it in- is
it dry, sharp, bitter, etc. If there are several bottles open, it
says "These are ciders", and this seems to put people much more at
ease with their tasting.
Happy pressing!
Jason MacArthur
Marlboro, Vt.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider poems
From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:54:09 -0400
I'm partial to limericks:
This fall the orchard was beckoning me.
The reason why was easy to see.
I picked all the pomes-
Those delicious domes
And the results I consumed greedily.
The apples were ground very fine.
The pomace was pressed just in time.
The quandary for me:
What would it be?
A cider, a cyser or wine?
Then Dick Dunn came to mind.
His critique I was sure I would find.
"Don't alter your juice"
"Use it straight from the sluice"
I'll not let him have some, it's mine!
- --
"She waters the garden, but maybe she just likes the hoses."
- -Grace Potter (Ah Mary)
------------------------------
Subject: First bittersweet harvest; pressing aids
From: "JAMES LUEDTKE" <jwdluedtke@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:35:28 -0500
I just finished the bulk of my cider-apple pressing last night. Quite
excited too, as it's the first year my orchard has enough bittersweets and
bittersharps to provide the bulk of the juice going into the cider.
Yarlington Mill was scrattered and pressed separately. The juice was
amazingly dark, with specific gravity 1.050, and T.A. just under .2 percent.
Will probably ferment it along with something more acidic and sweet.
The other pressing consisted mostly of Major, Harry Masters Jersey,
Breakwells, Chisel Jersey, and Egremont Russet. Specific gravity 1.060,
T.A. .45 percent.
Also, I wonder if any others add pressing aids such as rice hulls or chopped
straw to their pomace before pressing. The pressed pomace seems much drier
if rice hulls are used.
The rice hulls are inexpensive and available at homebrew/winemaking shops.
My sense is that I get roughly 10 to 15 percent more juice using them.
Seems like a slam-dunk way to make the most of the precious cider variety
juice!
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1412
*************************
