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Cider Digest #1380
Subject: Cider Digest #1380, 16 April 2007
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1380 16 April 2007
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: "Faux Foxwhelps" ("John C. Campbell III")
Promalic (Andrew Lea)
ID of Fauxwhelp etc? (Andrew Lea)
Another historical gem (Andrew Lea)
Oxidized Cider (Bradley Hunter)
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Subject: Re: "Faux Foxwhelps"
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@tseassoc.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:36:55 -0400
Yeah, Dick and I (and I'm sure a number of other orchardists) got
snookered by the same supplier on 'faux foxwhelps'. None of my
Tremlett's have begun to produce yet, so I don't know about them. I
believe the good Dr. Cummins (Cummins Nursery)
http://www.cumminsnursery.com/
and likely Professor Merwin at Cornell, can weigh in on the parentage
of the "faux" species. Jim Cummins has offered a 'faux foxwelp' before
but has the integrity to identify it as such.
I have what I am comfortable saying are "true foxwhelps" from Neil
Collins at "Trees of Antiquity"
http://www.treesofantiquity.com/
... three of them as a matter of fact. jccampb
> Subject: any ID of Fauxwhelp, non-Tremlett's?
> From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com <mailto:rcd@talisman.com>>
> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:49:39 -0600
> One of the annoying bits of knowledge for US cidermakers is that trees
> available in the US under the names "Foxwhelp" and "Tremlett's Bitter"
> aren't the true varieties from the UK. The ones we can get in the US
> are not terrible apples, but neither are they wonderful vintage
> types... (I made the tradeoff decision a couple years ago that they
> were good enough I didn't need to grub out the trees I had, but
> certainly not so good as to graft any more of them.)
> But I was thinking today, during my thoroughly mindless task of
> mowing, that it's odd we know what these varieties *aren't*, but not
> what they are! Anybody have history on them, or has there been any
> recent testing that would tell? Are they perhaps sports of the real
> cider varieties? nursery cross-up? something entirely unrelated?
> There is one other major mislabeling in the US--trees sold as
> Herefordshire Redstreak, although I think that practice has mostly
> been resolved and quit, since Herefordshire Redstreak doesn't exist
> ANYwhere any more. We know the US variety couldn't be right, but in
> that case afaik it sorted out that what was being sold was actually
> Somerset Redstreak. (No?)
------------------------------
Subject: Promalic
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:57:03 +0100
John Brett wrote:
> We did some trials on acid reduction last year that included this product.
>
> Alcoholic ferment was started with DV10 and allowed to ferment to 5
> brix. ....... conversion was by
> Promalic and not a spontaneous malolactic fermentation.
>
> The cider had fresh apple aromas and no off flavours.
So what would be the effect of doing the *entire* fermentation with the
promalic, to ferment both the sugar and to reduce the malic acid? Is
that possible / desirable?
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: ID of Fauxwhelp etc?
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:08:34 +0100
Dick wrote:
> One of the annoying bits of knowledge for US cidermakers is that
> trees available in the US under the names "Foxwhelp" and "Tremlett's
> Bitter" aren't the true varieties from the UK. ..... But I was
> thinking today, during my thoroughly mindless task of mowing, that
> it's odd we know what these varieties *aren't*, but not what they
> are!
I recall there was some work not long ago from a team at Cornell /
Geneva NY who had compared the genomes (DNA profiling) of a large
numbers of apple varieties (though not cider, AFAIR). I wonder how far
along this work has got? Perhaps they could help if they have a
sufficient database now? Ian Merwin - any ideas on this?
Certainly a number of grape varieties of previously uncertain parentage
seem to have been ID'd in this way recently.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Another historical gem
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:49:20 +0100
I note that William Alwood's classic 1903 book "A study of cider making
in France, Germany, and England with comments and comparisons on
American work" is now available for download from
http://www.archive.org/details/studyofcidermaki00alworich
Alwood wrote it for the US Department of Agriculture. This is 114 pages
of pure gold (for all that it shows English cidermaking 100 years ago in
a pretty poor light, apart from the efforts of Bulmers and the Butleigh
experiments!) If you have broadband, get it!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Oxidized Cider
From: Bradley Hunter <hunter@midcoast.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:16:29 -0400
I may, or may not, have just caused a problem with my last transfer of
cider.
I have been aging a primarily Golden Russet cider in a well used 10
gal. oak cask for almost a year.
Due to the weight of this full container and the lack of a second
strong back to help me elevate it for siphoning, I decided to use a new
tool I'd purchased.
It is a small hand held, battery operated pump that has a long shaft
and impeller inside a submersible tube.
Although it did move the cider up the tube , and did it fairly quickly,
I was concerned with the amount of turbulence it set up and I'm
wondering if I just whipped a ton of air into my poor cider.
I use a treatment of approx. 75 ppm of free SO2 ( 5 Campden tablets / 5
gal. ) at pressing but I rarely treat after that.
Since Potassium Metabisulphite is an anti-oxidant , could I now treat
my transfered cider with some dosage to minimize the possible effects
of the late introduced oxygen?
At what rate ( tablets / gal.) should I treat and does that need to be
ASAP to do any good?
If timing is critical, feel free to reply off digest to speed the fix.
Thanks for any advice.
Brad
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End of Cider Digest #1380
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