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Cider Digest #1336
Subject: Cider Digest #1336, 9 September 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1336 9 September 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
pictures for piston pump, last digest (Cider Digest Admin)
digest archivers please note archive tweak (Cider Digest Admin)
Re: Pear products (Benjamin Watson)
RE: Perry Pressing ("McGonegal, Charles")
RE: Grinding of seeds ("Charles McGonegal")
Re: Cider Short Course (Ian Merwin)
Re: Seeds: To grind or not to grind ("Ray Blockley")
CiderDay 2006 ("Howard, John")
foaming cider while bottling, only occurs after CO2 is added. ("J. Kent")
Re: Perry pressing (Claude Jolicoeur)
Tannins ("chris horn")
RE: Perry pressing ("shawn carney")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
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Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: pictures for piston pump, last digest
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 15:03:23 -0600 (MDT)
My apologies; I neglected to put up the photos and fix up the text on Shawn
Carney's article in the last digest (1335). The photos of the piston pump
can be seen at:
http://www.talisman.com/cider/pistonpump
I have patched up the archive copy of that digest to put the URL into it.
Yes, this is cheating, but I figured it's better than leaving useless
proto-references in an archived article.
sorry
da janitor
------------------------------
Subject: digest archivers please note archive tweak
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 15:09:10 -0600 (MDT)
If you keep an archive of past Cider Digests, please note the preceding
article--I actually patched a digest (1335) that had already gone out.
You can pick up the corrected copy at
http://www.talisman.com/cider/curyr/1335
from now until the end of the year when it will be rolled into a prior-
year archive.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pear products
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:29:55 -0400
Charles McGonegal at AEppel Treow Winery in Wisconsin is making some
good fortified pear spirits -- whether one calls it "poirreau" (the
pear version of pommeau, which is really is), or "Poirissimo," which is
what he's selling it as. Chas. made a fairly kickass batch of
Poirissimo with genuine perry pears, and will probably be doing more of
that in future, but the stuff I've tasted a couple weeks ago was made
with dessert pears (Comice and Bartlett/Williams, I believe). I liked
the taste, as did most people I foisted this on -- the only exception
was one person who found it a bit sweet. Would be great to serve this
with the cheese course after dinner, especially with a big-footed blue
cheese, because the sweetness and fruit would cut that well.
Otherwise, I too am really interested in learning more about perry and
fortified pear products in North America -- I am intending to make
perry a separate new chapter in the revised edition of my Cider, Hard
and Sweet book. My sense is that plenty of small wineries make a pear
wine (chaptalized), but few make perry -- a situation very analogous to
apple wine and cider.
Max Russell at Russell Orchards in Ipswich, MA makes both a perry (100%
pears) and a pear/cider blend (50/50 apples and pears). Both are pretty
good, as I recall. Nashoba Valley Winery in Bolton, MA makes a perry,
but I find this (like their New English Cider) fairly undistinguished.
Doc's Pear Cider from Warwick Valley Winery in New York (4.5 abv.) is
better than most similar products, I think (don't even think of trying
Woodchuck's "Pear Cider," which is made with "pear flavoring" and
should not be used as anything but a universal solvent for cleaning
carburetors, etc.).
Finally, I bought a Pear Port from Horton Vineyards in Gordonsville, VA
a couple of years ago which wasn't bad at all, but tastes far "hotter"
than Charles McGonegal's fortified pear products. (It's 21% abv.).
Their website is www.hvwine.com.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Perry Pressing
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:54:31 -0500
Brad asks about perry pressing in CD 1335.
Brad, while I'm not familiar with the specific cultivar you are using, I
have a few observation from research and experience.
1) Acidity. I'd go for the Dolgo addition, if you can't find any local
seedling/wild pears that have a profile similar to Dolgo (they do
exist). I'd suggest 5-10%
2) Tannins. If you're into adding tannins, use your favorite source. Be
forewarned that pears are infamous for throwing hard to clear hazes,
even with mixing pear cultivars.
3) Sweating. I recommend against it with pears. Increases both
difficulty of pressing (and lowers yield) and chance of off flavors from
wild fermentations inside overripe fruit.
4) Yield. I get about 3/4 the yield of apples, and I've gotten as low
as half. Cultivar and condition dependent. I suggest lots of rice
hulls.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow (Perrutreow?) Winery
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Grinding of seeds
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:05:03 -0500 (CDT)
I haven't looked carefully to see what happens to the seeds going through
our mill - but I will note that calvados distillers do not seem to care
enough about amygdalin (the cyanide-bearing component) to use a catalytic
converter in the still like kirshwasser distillers do.
I'm thinking the cyanide risk in cider is minimal to non-existant.
> Subject: Seeds: To grind or not to grind
> From: Donald Davenport <djdavenport@earthlink.net>
> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:08:23 -0600
>
- --
"To make an article is one thing."
"To make it known is another."
Revival of Cider, HP Bulmer & Co.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Short Course
From: Ian Merwin <im13@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:10:05 -0400
Cider Makers Short Course Offered in December
If there is sufficient demand (22 people enrolled), Cornell
University will again offer an intensive four-day course for cider
makers from Dec. 5 to 8th, 2006, at the New York Ag Experiment
Station in Geneva NY. As in previous years, the course will be
taught by Dr. Peter Mitchell from the UK--an international consultant
and expert in ciders.
This year's four-day course will include:
- --A thorough introduction to the main principles and practices of
cider production
- --Training in the key techniques and laboratory skills for cider
analysis and production
- --Introduction to techniques and practices of cider sensory analysis
- --Knowledge, insight and technical know-how based upon Dr. Mitchell's
decades of practical experience as a teacher, consultant, and cider
maker.
- --A detailed course manual with many useful charts and tables for
practical reference in the cidery
Cornell University hosts this course on a non-profit basis, with the
required fees of $725 per person (not including lodging or
transportation) based upon our costs of instruction. We need 22
people enrolled to offer this course, and enrollment will be capped
at that number on a first-come basis.
If you are interested taking this cider-making course, you should
contact directly either Ian Merwin <im13@cornell.edu>, or Olga
Padilla-Zakour <oip1@cornell.edu>. Please do not clutter the Cider
Digest by responding via this list if you want to enroll or need more
information about this course.
- --
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((!)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Ian A. Merwin, PhD
Professor of Horticulture & International Agriculture
118 Plant Science Bldg
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, USA, 14853
Telephone: 607-255-1777
<www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/merwin/index.htm>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Seeds: To grind or not to grind
From: "Ray Blockley" <rayblockley@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:08:17 +0100
Hi Donald,
My mill chews up all the pips too but doesn't grind them. However, if
you consider that in the UK and Europe (especially Normandy and
Brittany, France) the original preferred method of milling apples was to
grind them between a stone roller and a stone trough, pulled round and
round by horse / oxen / donkey, then the pips must have gotten pretty
much ground up!
You could always try making a small batch of cored and de-pipped cider,
and compare this with the fully ground whole-apple alternative and see
if there's any effect upon taste, bouquet, etc.
My personal advice, for what it's worth, is just chuck the lot in. So a
thumbs up from me.
Cheers,
Ray Blockley.
Hucknall, Nottingham. UK.
------------------------------
Subject: CiderDay 2006
From: "Howard, John" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:34:35 -0400
CiderDay 2006 is shaping up to be a great event again this year. Put
off that pressing another weekend and come to western Mass November 4 & 5.
http://www.ciderday.org
The schedule is posted at:
http://www.ciderday.org/CiderDay06Schedule.pdf
Several regular contributors here on the Digest are participating. Ben
Watson has orchestrated a unique opportunity to sample over a dozen
commercial ciders from across the continent. Charles and Milissa
McGonegal are trekking east and will be participating on a panel
discussion and tasting of French, English, and Spanish ciders with Rich
Stadnik and others. Gary Awdey will debut a sensory evaluation workshop
that he is developing to help train judges about various cider faults
and attributes.
Apple gurus Michael Phillips and Tom Burford have workshops on
everything from cultivating to wassailing! Paul Correnty and friends
generously share their expertise and cider. Hillside Orchards will be
there again with perhaps the best selection of heirloom apples in the
country available for tasting and purchase. Slow Foods is helping with
an apple tasting and a cider and cheese pairing. And don't miss the
CiderDay Dinner at Historic Deerfield!
Several of us far flung cider enthusiasts have made the Candlelight Inn
in Greenfield (think Bates Motel lurking behind a McDonalds) our home
base for the weekend and we would love to share our traditional New
England farm breakfast with you. Hope to see you there!
John Howard
Philadelphia PA
------------------------------
Subject: foaming cider while bottling, only occurs after CO2 is added.
From: "J. Kent" <Sheep@kent9999.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:37:20 +0100
We have been having problems bottling cider from the year 2004. if we
bottle the cider still (not sparkling) no foaming occurs in the bottle.
When bottling sparkling cider we get foaming up the bottle neck, this
reduces the volume in the bottles. We think its the pectin reacting with
the CO2 under pressure during bottling, when the pressure is released
as the bottles are released from the machnine, the cider foams just like
champagne. We have been advised to use a enzyme which will grab the
pectin and pull it to the bottom of the vat (so removing it).
Anyone know how Pectin reacts under pressure?
thanks for any advice
Jeremy Kent
herefordshire, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Perry pressing
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:40:39 -0400
In Cider Digest #1335, 7 September 2006
Bradley Hunter wrote
>Subject: Perry pressing
>From: Bradley and Caitlin Hunter <hunter@midcoast.com>
>Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:24:04 -0400
>
>In a couple of weeks I will have access to a quantity of Luscious
>pear, which is a South Dakota E31 X Ewart cross. I have no prior
>experience with this variety but I assume, since it is a dessert
>pear, it might benefit from some blending to give it some more
>character.
Brad,
I have had a first small crop of Luscious last year. Too small a crop
however to make a press test. However, I found that this pear was quite
crisp, juicy and contains a good amount of acids - making it potentially
interesting for juice and cider. It is surely much better for this purpose
than most dessert pears.
For my part, I would not rush to blend it - I would measure the sugar and
acidity content before making decisions on blends...
I should harvest a little more of this pear this year, probably enough this
time to make a juice test - would be interesting to compare our results.
Claude Jolicoeur
Quebec.
------------------------------
Subject: Tannins
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:34:08 -0700
There was a good article in the local paper about research being done at
Oregon State University(Go Beavers!) on tannins and color in red wine. I
found it interesting and have to think at least a few of those same tannins
can be found in cider...
Andrew, what percent of grape tannins are really the same as apple
tannins???
http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/science/1157349333239920.xml?or
egonian?scg&coll=7
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon USA
'When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying
the cross.'
-Sinclair Lewis
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Perry pressing
From: "shawn carney" <scarney88@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:52:14 -0600
Brad asked about perry pressing. I am no expert in perry but we just
pressed some last week so I will tell you what little I know.
As for mixing pears and apples, I have never done it but know people who
have. The result was alright but the apple may have overpowered the pear a
bit. You may want to make half with the apples and half without apple or at
least go light on the apple?
I would be a little scared to press ripe pears in a basket press. Do you
have some sort of racks to put between layers of pomace or do you plan on
filling the basket up and just pressing the whole enchilada? We got 3 gal
per bushel from our pears last week in a rack and cloth type press. To
increase yield it may work better to provide a way for the juice to run out
of the middle of the basket (like using racks or plates with some sort of
ridges like the newer poly racks sold for rack and cloth presses). If you
are not using a mesh bag to hold the pomace you may want to think about
filtering the fresh juice or at least let it sit in an intermediate
container overnight after pressing. This way you can rack the (clearer)
juice off the top the next morning.
Sulfiting 24 hours before using a yeast like EC1118 (because it produces
SO2) may be a good idea to help prevent MLF (at least in one batch). I was
told that MLF in perry can convert the citric acid to acetic acid. I hope
this was of some use.
Shawn Carney
Cedaredge CO
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1336
*************************
