Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1358
Subject: Cider Digest #1358, 15 December 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1358 15 December 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cider web site? ("David Houseman")
submision for the cider digest (Dan Spoelstra)
sweetening cider; stevia (Dick Dunn)
2006 GLOWS Results ("Jeff Carlson")
Re: sweetening dry cider (Denise Elliott)
Single Varietal Cider Trials ("Drew Zimmerman")
Sweetening Dry Cider ("Drew Zimmerman")
pH after pressing (Andrew Lea)
Concentrate stability (Andrew Lea)
Long Ashton records (Andrew Lea)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cider web site?
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:10:27 -0500
I was looking for cideries in PA but could only find references to sweet
cider, not any hard cider. Is there a source reference for all the
artisan, commercial cidermakers in the US?
David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: submision for the cider digest
From: Dan Spoelstra <ssphoto@iserv.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:15:48 -0500
A question for the fruit growers out there.
I know this is a rather ugly subject but I'm concerned about the safety
of my home spraying procedures.
I use a combination of Imidan and Captan to spray my trees. I spray
from just after petal fall to the end of August( if i don't spray almost
all the fruit is damaged by coddling moths). The fruit remains on the
trees for approx. two months after the last spray before harvesting in
October and November. Before pressing I wash in a tub with a garden
hose. Is that good enough? Or am I still drinking a lot of pesticide?
Is there something safer than Imidan and Captan ? I only have about 30
trees to spray.
Also I've been reading a Blogger that has been talking about his design
for a garbage disposal apple grinder (good pictures)and a bit of his own
pressing experiences. : thedeliberateagrigarian.blogspot.com
Hidden Rose is another apple I think worthy of more attention for cider
makers . Very aromatic . Almost overpowering , but a nice addition to a
blend. Plus the pink flesh adds a little color.
We had a interesting article in our Grand Rapids Press about The Great
Lakes Olde World Syder Competition with a nice Photo of Gary Awdey.
Dan Spoelstra
Kent City Michigan
ssphoto@iserv.net
------------------------------
Subject: sweetening cider; stevia
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:41:51 -0700
In the last digest, joshua friedlander <yettiegreat@yahoo.com> wrote:
> sweating cider
(I sure hope that was a typo for "sweetening cider"!)
> any mead maker knows that honey is very fermentable. I even use it to
> prime my beers. When using honey it's importan to use yeast enigizers and
> nutrients...
If you were adding the honey for the main fermentation (as in a cyser) you
might need nutrients but usually not--the juice usually provides enough.
But if you're trying to sweeten after fermentation you surely -don't- want
nutrient/energizer, because that's just going to wake up the yeast.
>...Some thing to rescearch would be an herb called steavia. It's a
> herbal sweetener that I don't believe would add any fermentable sugar...
That has come up before here on the digest. Stevia is a darling of the
health-food-and-herbals aficionados in the US...but note that it's not
actually sold as a sweetener. (A commercial cider producer would -not-
be able to use it in a product.)
The situation is murky at best, so study it and make an informed choice.
Andrew Lea pointed out that stevia is not permitted in the UK or EU due
to toxicology concerns; he gave the following reference back in digest
1110 a few years ago:
http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/webpage/stevia
Use of stevia has been reviewed and rejected by the EU more than once.
But...well...it's accepted in the US, right? Not exactly so. Stevia
falls into a no-man's-land of regulation--it's an herbal supplement. It's
not treated as a drug and reviewed for pharmacological effectiveness and
safety. But neither is it a food, so it's not reviewed for general food
safety. There's an ongoing argument between folks who don't want to lose
the herbal supplements they are now taking (over what would undoubtedly
be years of testing) against folks who believe that anything sold to be
ingested should be regulated somehow.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: 2006 GLOWS Results
From: "Jeff Carlson" <carlsonj@gvsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:15:35 -0500
The Great Lakes Old World Syder Competition took place on December 13,
2006.95 entries were judged in the non-commercial division and 40 entries
were judged in the commercial division. The winners were announced at the
Great Lakes Fruit, Vegetable and Farm Market Expo on December 7, 2006.
Best of show in the non-commercial division went to Harrison Gibbs of
Williamsburg, VA for his English Cider. Best of show in the commercial
Division went to Uncle Johns Fruit House Winery for their Apple Dessert
Wine.
Complete results for the non-commercial can be found at:
http://www.michiganbeerguide.com/news.asp?cmd=view&articleid=204
Results for the commercial are at:
http://www.michiganbeerguide.com/news.asp?articleid=205
A special thanks to Gary Awdey, and Charles McGonegal of Aeppeltreow
Winery for their outstanding presentation and seminar given the day before
the judging. Over 45 people attended and were treated to over 20
commercial examples of fermented, and intensified ciders. Score sheets
are on the way. Medals will be ordered and should arrive after the
holidays. Thanks to all those who entered..
Jeff Carlson
carlsonj@gvsu.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Re: sweetening dry cider
From: Denise Elliott <delliott1@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:41:49 -0500
I wanted to say thank you for the suggestions on sweetening the cider
with stevia or using cane sugar and keeping it cold, or just letting
it mellow. Since there doesn't seem to be one standard way of doing
it, I am going to try several different methods and will let everyone
know what has happened. Here is my plan
#1 Repitch with fresh pasteur champagne yeast , primed with apple
juice concentrate and bottled immediately, kept at room temp until
adequately "bubbly".
#2 Repitch with fresh pasteur champagne yeast, sweeten to taste with
table sugar, and place in the refrigerator for use at Christmas.
#3 Repitch with fresh pasteur champagne yeast, prime with apple juice
concentrate and sweeten to taste with Stevia, bottle and place in
root cellar (avg temp 55)
#4 Whatever is left over after these trials I will be placing into a
smaller carboy and allow to sit until about March in the root cellar
with an airlock in place.
Again, thank you to everyone for your suggestions.
Denise
------------------------------
Subject: Single Varietal Cider Trials
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:47:10 -0800
I haven't posted much lately, and most things I would have written were most
eloquently done by others, but I think I may have some useful input about
cider trials. At the WSU Mount Vernon Research and Extension Center in
northwest Washington we've been doing cider varietal trials since 2002.
Keeping this program going has been a real struggle lately due to lack of
funding and available volunteer help. However, we have amassed a fair
amount of data on cider fruit and eating apples and plan to release a
bulletin about mid 2007. The bulletin will be available for a small fee
from the WSU extension service, or free to download from the WSU Mt. Vernon
website. I'll make a posting here when it's out.
In doing trials I recommend that you consider the following:
Set up a standard protocol and do a thorough job of recording data on the
juice. There is a wealth of data gathered and published from 80 some years
of cider study done at the Long Ashton research station and in order to
reference new data to the LARS stuff the same methods need to be used.
Measurements of Brix, specific gravity, pH and TA can be done with
inexpensive, readily available equipment. Measuring tannin is another
story. The various methods of tannin measurement don't correlate well with
each other. If one wants to compare tannin levels in apple juice (and I
would think that quite important) to the LARS data, then use the Lowenthal
permanganate titration method. It is easy, inexpensive and repeatable. I
believe it is available on Andrew Lea's website.
When making the cider, one has to decide how to deal with the variation in
pH. Some apples (notably sweets and bittersweets) have juice pH above 3.8
which puts it in a risky range for healthy fermentation. The objective here
(I think) is to evaluate the character of the cider each apple makes, not
the character of misfiring yeast metabolism or bacterial contributions.
What we do for high pH juice is adjust the acidity with malic acid. This is
done by adjusting to a target TA, not a target pH. The sharpness we taste
in our mouths relates to the amount of acid present, not necessarily the
ionic strength of the acid, so pick a target TA, say 4.5 g/L and add malic
acid to reach this; the pH will fall into a healthy range. One can argue
that the character of the acidified cider won't be truly represented, but in
general practice, low acid apples most likely are blended with sharps anyway
for balance. By using straight malic acid, there are no interfering
characteristics from other apples. For juice with pH 3.7 or lower, no
adjustment is made.
Standardize the yeast strain, temperature and nutrients. Variation in these
will affect cider character.
Do a good job of protecting, bottling and storing the ciders. They may need
to be around for a while and need to be at their best when evaluated.
Before making a final judgment on an apple's cider characteristics, do three
or more seasons of the same variety. There can (and usually is) variations
from year to year.
I think it is most important to have the character analysis done by people
with sensory training and experience. The objective here is to describe the
flavor and aroma attributes of the cider, not just good or bad, thin or
full, sour or bitter, but useful character descriptions like grass, hay,
band aid, clove, anise, cotton candy, tobacco, salt, smoky bacon, etc. One
other note on evaluating ciders; do it at room temperature or slightly
below! Chilling dramatically reduces the detectability of subtle flavors
and aromas. And for you would be judges, remember, chilling hides flaws.
Drew Zimmerman
Red Barn Cider
------------------------------
Subject: Sweetening Dry Cider
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:35:44 -0800
On sweetening dry cider; anyone who wants a sweet cider really should
consider in-bottle pasteurization. You can use any sweetener you want and
as much as you want and have absolutely no worries. Another benefit is you
don't have to worry so much about how well things were cleaned and
sanitized. Don't get me wrong, cleaning and sanitizing deserve the utmost
diligence ? the heat treatment of the finished package gives one sound
assurance that the product is stable (without the use of chemical
preservatives). In fact it's down right bullet proof. When I first started
doing this with my home ciders, I carried a case around in the trunk of my
car all summer, fall and winter. No hazes developed, nothing grew, and the
flavor didn't change. In fact, I still have a bottle or two in the garage
and they are still as bright and clear as when they were bottled in the
spring of 2003. The process is easily done at home on the stove or in
almost any metal container that will fit on a propane turkey frying burner.
It works equally as well commercially and can be done quite inexpensively.
How does it affect the flavor? Ask the folks at GLOWS, they seem to like my
products.
If you want details on the process, contact me off digest, or better yet,
attend Peter Mitchell's course on cider making at Cornell or WSU Mt. Vernon,
or in the UK. I hate to sound like a shameless promoter, but I think
education is most important, especially about something as serious as cider
making ? I do take my cider making seriously. Besides, the British have
been making serious cider for over 400 years and continue to have a
relatively robust cider industry; you'd think maybe they've figured a few
things out.
Drew Zimmerman
Red Barn Cider
------------------------------
Subject: pH after pressing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:55:59 +0000
Charles wrote:
>
> And note the direction I mentioned - the pH goes _up_ with standing. I
> haven't tested the TA before and after on the _same_ juice, but in similar
> situations. If it were CO2, it would have to be de-gassing, not pickup.
>
Mea culpa! Hair shirts and all! I completely mis-read your original
posting, to say that the pH dropped on standing. So obviously my
'explanation' is quite spurious!
> It could be sloppy observations on my part, but I'm pretty sure I fairly
> frequently see a pH of apple juice (not pears, nor crab apple juice) pH
> about 3.3-3.4 right off the press rise to 3.7 if the juice should sit in
> cold storage for a few days. 3.7 is also what it ends up as
> post-fermentation. The TA tends to be about 4 g-malic/L in either case.
> The 3.7 would be consistent with the graphs on your website. The 3.4
> would not - so I think it's the spurious reading - but what could be
> shoving the buffering around so?
Yes I agree that a pH of 3.7 is more consistent with a TA of 4g/l. But I
still never heard of this observation nor can I imagine any mechanism
that would account for it! Does the same happen with grapes?? The only
thing I can now think of is that ascorbic acid is lost in apple juice
within a few minutes of pressing. But that's only 100 ppm or so at best
so I can't imagine it would account for such a rise in pH. In any case
that would apply equally to crab apples.
Andrew
- --------
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Concentrate stability
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:56:22 +0000
Charles wrote:
> I've also had concentrate additions throw hazes, sediments, and (I
> suspect) microbial activity. Pear seems especially prone.
> Concentrates are not as sterile as you might think.
That is absolutely true. Although a 70 Brix (70% solids) concentrate is
not subject to normal yeast and mould growth, there are some specialised
yeasts which will grow and ferment albeit slowly in such concentrates.
The most notorious is Zygosaccharomyces bailii. When bailii gets into
normal strength juice it also ferments - unfortunately it is also
benzoate and sulphite resistant so it can be an endemic problem in any
factory handling juice concentrate. The good news is that it can be
totally controlled by heat i.e. pasteurisation, so in general it's not a
problem in commercial cidermaking, although it is not unknown and has
been the cause of several spectacular (exploding bottle) product recalls
in the UK!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Long Ashton records
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:57:02 +0000
Ben asked:
> In fact, I would be interested in knowing whether anyone knows if
> research from Long Ashton is still accessible anywhere.
The good news is that most of the Long Ashton Annual Reports from 1903
to 1985 are available in at least two University libraries in the US as
far as I know - the (Cornell) Food Science Dept at Geneva NY (NYSAES)
and the Oenology Department at UC Davis CA. I suspect that the Ag-Canada
station at Summerland BC also has a full set and maybe the Vineland
Station at St Catherine's Ontario. I know at least one contributor to
this Digest who spent a couple of days going through the complete
collection at Geneva!
The bad news is that the Annual Reports contain only a fraction of the
work that was carried out. An overview of some of the cider work was
published in various reviews (probably the best of which are given
below). I know for a fact that some work on single variety ciders from
dessert apples was carried out in the 1970's because the samples were
presented and discussed at an annual tasting day which I attended as a
junior researcher, but to the best of my knowledge no record of that
work remains. There was no systematic record keeping in those days -
most papers were in the filing cabinets of the individual researchers
and were lost when they retired. When the Cider Section closed in 1985
most remaining records were destroyed. I understand the Cider Museum in
Hereford have recently started a trawl for what records remain, but
since all the senior Cider Section staff from 1985 have now died I fear
that they will recover very little.
Andrew Lea
- ------------------------
Beech F.W. (1972) English Cidermaking - Technology, Microbiology and
Biochemistry. In Progress in Industrial Microbiology. Hockenhull D.J.D.
(ed). Churchill Livingstone, London. pp 133 - 213.
Beech F.W. (1972) Cider making and cider research - a review. J. Inst
Brewing 78 477
Beech F.W. and Carr J.G. (1977) Cider and Perry. In Economic
Microbiology Vol 1. 'Alcoholic Beverages'. Rose A.H. (ed). Academic
Press, London. pp 139-313.
Beech F.W. (1993) Yeasts in Cider Making. In The Yeasts (2nd edn.) Vol
5. 'Yeast Technology'. Rose A.H. and Harrison J.S. (eds). Academic
Press, London. pp 169 - 213.
- -------------------------
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1358
*************************
