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Cider Digest #1351
Subject: Cider Digest #1351, 12 November 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1351 12 November 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cider Day thanks (Benjamin Watson)
Big Cider (Robert Lewis)
other folks I forgot to thank for their part in Cider Day ("Jay Hersh aka ...)
fruit flies (Mike Johnson)
success with commercial MLF cultures? (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Cider Day thanks
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:16:34 -0500
In the last Digest, Jay Hersh very kindly singled me out along with
longtime Cider Day stalwarts Charlie Olchowski and Paul Correnty.
At the risk of sounding like an Academy Award recipient, I'd like to
thank a bunch of other key people and organizations that helped make
the 12th Annual Cider Day so successful this past weekend.
Terry and Judith Maloney of West County Cider are really the founders
of CD and still provide much of the energy and planning as the owners
of the "hometown" cidery. They are both incredibly gracious and
competent, and make well-made, very drinkable ciders.
John Howard and Lise Funderburg come up from Philadelphia and seem to
get more involved every year with planning and running the event. They
are real ciderheads and brim full of enthusiasm.
Gary Awdey of Eden, NY (a name familiar to all Digesters) did a
fascinating workshop this year on taste education, and we rely on his
expertise and his passionate experimentation in home cidermaking.
Charles and Milissa McGonegal from Aeppel Treow Winery were the
featured cidermakers this year, and drove all the way from Wisconsin to
be with us. They contributed in many ways to making this year special.
My good friend Tom Burford from Lynchburg, VA talked about heirloom
apples and grafting and held a Southeast apple tasting, featuring 15
varieties that almost no one in the North had ever tried. Tom is a
national treasure and his 65 years (!) worth of orcharding experience
make him a sought-after consultant and speaker. He is a Southern
gentleman, warm and funny and yet full of wisdom that all of us who
grow apples need to know. I am planning to sweep out the tobacco barns
of western Mass. next year, for instance, and spread some tobacco leaf
waste around my trees to keep the borers at bay! Tom had such a good
time that he wants to come back in future years, which thrills us no
end.
Many friends from New Hampshire: Michael Phillips is doing amazing work
moving forward our knowledge of organic orcharding techniques. Steve
Wood from Farnum Hill Ciders is always generous with his ciders and
loves to share his perspective every year on our panels. My neighbor
Rich Stadnik of Pup's Cider is an incredibly bright guy and terrific
marketer. Steve Miner is our newest commercial cidermaker, and came
down this year with his barrel-fermented, all-natural cider.
Mark Lattanzi and the staff at CISA (Community Involved in Sustaining
Agriculture) -- a regional small farm group -- really do a lot of the
coordination and legwork throughout the year, along with the Franklin
County Chamber of Commerce. Mark has already called another meeting for
Nov. 21 to wrap up this year and start planning for an even better
Cider Day 2007.
All of the participating orchards and orchardists in this historic
apple-growing and cider-making region (Apex, Clarkdale, Hillside, New
Salem, and Pine Hill) contribute mightily, as does Historic Deerfield
and the Inn at Deerfield -- great venues for many of our major events.
The contributions from commercial cider producers all across the U.S.
make it possible for us to mount the Cider Salon, the largest and
broadest tasting of American ciders. This year we had 13-14 producers
represented, from Washington and Oregon to New Hampshire. Every year we
have a few new producers -- the Midwest and Great Lakes are coming on
strong, and next year we plan to feature at least one new Virginia
cidery that is planting the cider flag below the Mason-Dixon line. I
also want to feature more Canadian cideries next year.
Last, but certainly not least, all of the other volunteers and the
amateur cider makers who come year after year are the backbone of Cider
Day. People like Peter Hoover and Claude Jolicoeur (not there this
year, and sorely missed), who bring their ciders and share them in
impromptu "tailgate tastings". This is where Cider Day started, and I
hope we never get so "sophisticated" that we lose that home-cider
constituency.
Sorry to be so long-winded. I'm sure I have forgotten lots of people,
for which I apologize. But this year was the best Cider Day I've ever
participated in, and we are working hard to make sure next year is even
better. So mark your calendars -- good Lord willing, we'll do it all
again next Nov. 3 and 4 (and I notice we gain an hour that weekend,
making sobering up easier on Sunday!).
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: Big Cider
From: Robert Lewis <mazerrob@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Your post reminds me of the first time some college buddies wanted to make
penia-colladas. We bought the rum, bought some coconuts (yeah, we were
into the all natural), bought some pineapples, and blended... Our first
try tasted like it had too many of every ingredient. Upon reflection,
we thru in a healthy does of ice, and then things were better...
Generally speaking, The Apples used for making hard cider are not used for
anything else. Soft cider that we have here in the states is a totally
different animal. I have had success by adding two cans of concentrated
apple juice per 5 gallon batch, If you want higher alcohol, just add
a bunch of sugar, or honey... I don't think of cider as something that
calls for a wine strengh, Do you intend to artifically carbonate it?
I often find that my ciders do turn out too dry, and I cheat, I always taste
it before bottleing, and if it's tart, i toss in a few ounces of honey.
I use beer yeast on cider, and the honey has sugars that beer years cant
handle...
Hi,
right now I'm interested in making really "big" cider - as wine or beer
makers would say. By big, we mean a lot of flavor, a lot of alcohol, a
lot of body - in short - a lot of everything. I'm looking for
additives, techniques, recipes for making big cider - has anyone made
really good fortified cider? Added other fruit or spices or other
sources of fermentable sugars and gotten good, harmonious results?
------------------------------
Subject: other folks I forgot to thank for their part in Cider Day
From: "Jay Hersh aka Dr. Beer(R)" <jsh@doctorbeer.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:40:23 -0500
it has been mentioned to me that in thanking some of the folks that put on
Cider Day I forgot to mention Terry & Judith Maloney who originated the event.
This is especially embarrassing since my wife & I actually ate dinner with
Terry & Judith at the event on Sat. Just goes to show how nice and self
effacing they are as we spent most of the dinner talking about our past
experiences cider touring in Quebec.
Other folks who I personally thought did a great job was Gary Awdey who
presented the sensory evaluation session (a topic close to my heart for
those that know me as Dr. Beer (R)).
There are many others that I should be thanking too, but I'm not always the
best at remembering names so let me just say that everyone involved in this
event did a great job!
Jay H
------------------------------
Subject: fruit flies
From: Mike Johnson <tomijon@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:11:11 -0800 (PST)
Fellow Digesters,
I've been making cider for several years and improvements have been quicker
in coming since i began reading this digest. For reasons of further alcohol
concentration this year, i have made much more than my usual 15 gals .
The problem is i have so many fruit flies my wife is ready to evict me
and my brews. I live in western NC and our autumn highs are around 60 F
these days. My basement won't get cooler than 45F in mid winter. Is there
anything i can do to rid my basement of these annoying insects? Thanks, Mike
------------------------------
Subject: success with commercial MLF cultures?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:51:03 -0700
Anybody using one of the commercial malo-lactic bacteria cultures and happy
with the results?
I've tried them on a few ciders, and the summary is that I'm underwhelmed
at best. In one case I'm not whelmed at all, rather feeling left high and
dry by the attempt.
Perhaps obviously, the ciders I started with were aggressively acidic, so
the goal was to bring the acidity down to a believable level. The MLF did
that, but -seemed- to introduce some other odd flavor notes. And in any
case, there was a loss of "cider character": Ignoring the odd notes, the
results were more akin to white wines.
Now, it could be that my overly-acidic starting ciders were also lacking
in proper character or had other odd tastes that couldn't be perceived due
to the acidity. I was just trying to "fix" the most obvious fault. It
could be that I only unmasked the next layer of problems in these ciders.
I don't know, which is why I'm asking about experience of other folks.
I used two cultures: one, a White Labs liquid culture; the other, a dry
granulated something for which unfortunately I can't identify the source
because the brew-shop graciously repackaged it (probably monstrously
marking up the price) and in so doing removed both traceability and any
hint of useful instructions (but I digress...:-).
MLF has a rep for softening overly-acidic ciders, but this rep is for the
naturally-occurring bacteria. Andrew has noted (not sure whether here or
on ukcider) that the commercial cultures are completely effective, in the
sense that they will convert -all- of the malic acid to lactic in short
order given proper conditions. Natural bacteria might not be so efficient
or swift, and a partial, slow conversion might be much better just because
the cider could be consumed "at its best" before the conversion goes all
the way.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1351
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