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Cider Digest #1321
Subject: Cider Digest #1321, 27 May 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1321 27 May 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Funky cider aromas (Andrew Lea)
Pear Ripening (Andrew Lea)
Apples grown in bottles ("John Jeffs")
Just how much brass is too much? (Terry Bradshaw)
cider-touring England (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Funky cider aromas
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 13:30:51 +0100
Terry Bradshaw wrote:
> So I have fingered the specific yeast strain (R-2) as my main problem
> this season, although I am looking to get back away from commercial
> yeasts altogether again in the coming years.
Looking at the link you gave to the R2 yeast
http://morewinemaking.com/product.html?product_id=16502 it looks like
it was selected to deliberately release the characteristic Sauvignon
Blanc "cat pee / blackcurrant" aroma. Now these are thiols which it is
believed are liberated from non-volatile precursors in the grapes by a
specific carbon-sulfur lyase enzyme system which is not present in all
yeasts. I just wonder if there is a link here with the eggy aromas in
ciders, which are almost certainly related chemically. It is entirely
possible that there are similar but unknown non-volatile precursors in
apples which will not liberate their unpleasant aromas until a specific
yeast enzyme is present or is activated. There is rather a technical
article on this at
http://www.newworldwinemaker.com/article.asp?id=203&mode=current
Of course in the SB case the aromas are desired and in the cider case they
are not but this does not affect the underlying biochemistry. It is
certainly known that one of the key (desirable) and nearly-unique
flavour components of cider (octane 1,3 diol which condenses with
acetaldehyde to give a characteristic green cidery aroma) is generated
from non-volatile apple precursors during fermentation. This is one of
the virtually uninvestigated areas of cider chemistry which cries out
for some good science in a well-equipped institute!
One of the ways you can supress these aromas (this is best done shortly
after fermentation) is by the addition of trace (sub parts per million)
levels of copper sulfate. This is a legally permitted practice in EU
winemaking - I'm not sure about its status in the rest of the world.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Pear Ripening
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:06:18 +0100
Charles McGonegal wrote:
> I found that the pear fermentation had ended up with _17_times_ the
> methanol level of the apple. Now, I suspect that naturally occuring
> PME, or other pectin-related enzymes did this. These pears
> (Bartlett) were left to sweat _way_ too long. They were mush
> (albeit, very aromatic mush) by pressing time. Does this seem likely?
Here's another chemist wading in to say he agrees with you! The more
pectin breakdown by native PME, the more methanol is liberated.
> Would that also explain an elevated ethyl acetate level (or that just
> pears for you)?
It couldn't come from the pectin. Ethyl acetate can arise from so many
different sources (primarily just fermentation). Typically perries have
been regarded as higher in ethyl acetate than ciders - sometimes this
has been regarded as bacterial in origin. The theory is that the citric
acid in pears (more than in apples) is broken down by ML bacteria to
give acetic acid which then reacts to give ethyl acetate. Maybe the
mushy pears had a higher bacterial load?
> Has anyone taken a detailed look at what happens to these trace
> components with sweating time?
Not that I recall in pears. I suspect the fruit brandy literature
(mostly written in German or Serbo-Croat) may offer some clues!
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Apples grown in bottles
From: "John Jeffs" <pdms@senet.com.au>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 07:02:24 +0930
Hi there,
I remember seeing somewhere a bottle of apple brandy that had an apple
inside it. Could someone please tell me where I can get bottle of this?
Many Thanks
John Jeffs
C/- Post Office
Lenswood
S.A.
5240
Ph/Fax: (08) 8389 8554
Mob: 0409 289 019
Email: pdms@senet.com.au
------------------------------
Subject: Just how much brass is too much?
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 19:47:55 -0400
Okay, I like to keg my ciders as much as possible, even if only as a
handy place to age them. I like the light spritz/petillance that they
pick up when held at 7-10 psi...we aren't talking gushers here, just a
light prickle. So I would like a simple system to occasionally fill
bottles off the kegs, heck even to fill cases of if it works right.
Counterpressure bottle fillers seem like a PITA, although I could
probably figure it out. Problem is, setup is such that I would avoid
just filling a couple of bombers for friends who stop by. So I see this
'beer gun', (http://www.brewcitysupplies.com/172/cat172.htm?748) and it
looks like just the ticket. Only problem is the brass fitting on it.
So, how much brass is too much? If the acidic cider passes through one
fitting on the way to the bottle, is that too much? Obviously the unit
would have to be well cleaned before/after each use, probably with a
non-acid cleaner (no star-san, or even sulfite/acid sol'n?)
Any help here?
Thanks,
Terry B
================
Terence Bradshaw
Calais, VT
1450 feet, zone 4
terryb@lostmeadowvt.com
http://www.lostmeadowvt.com
The views represented are mine and mine only........
------------------------------
Subject: cider-touring England
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 23:17:08 -0600
This is mostly aimed at US readers--certainly not much at folks in the UK
who have such a wealth of cider available. Three of us made a trip around
some of the cider country in the west of England. "We" were myself, my
wife Diane, and Gary Awdey. Gary will be posting notes on his own; I'll
try to put together postings as I get organized (which means it could take
a while, alas).
I'll offer my views and experiences, but anybody who knows better please
weigh in! FWIW, this was my sixth cidervisit.
The purpose of this first note is just a general overview and exhortation:
If you're seriously interested in cider, and if you haven't visited the UK,
and if your circumstances permit, you really should visit. I'm not trying
to do a travelogue or a Fodor's here, just trying to give information and
encouragement enough to get more cider enthusiasts to visit an important
cider-producing area.
You can get a completely different view of cider than what you get in the US.
Instead of fizzy/sweet/fruity ciders (like our mass-market sixpack ciders)
you'll find many ciders which are still, bone-dry, and with a complex of
tastes you've never encountered or guessed before. (You won't like some
of them--at first, or for a few folks, at all!) It's like the transition
from wine coolers to real wines.
And then there's perry...but that's a complete topic in itself. Real cider
is very good, and it takes skill to make it, but it's amenable to science
and reasonable craft. There's science to perry too, but a lot more art,
and even some magic. There are some perry magicians in the UK.
A lot of the places you'll want to see are out-of-the-way, since craft
cidermaking is a rural tradition. Driving in the UK is not impossible
for a north-American, but it IS a challenge. If you're comfortable with
some winding roads and driving in unfamiliar places, you'll be OK. You
WILL get lost, frequently at first. I suggest three points that will
help a lot:
* Rent a fairly small car...not one of the urban roller-skates, but
neither do you want a land barge when you're driving a country lane
a mere 6' wide between the bramble borders.
* Get a copy of the AA Big Road Atlas of Britain. (AA is analogous
to the US AAA; in fact the AAA offices in the US have carried the AA
UK atlas.) You need GOOD maps.
* Buy, beg, borrow, or steal a copy of _The_Highway_Code_, which is
the official book of UK driving regs, road signs, etc. It's a thin
book; you can read and digest most important points on your flight
over. It's not hard, but you -must- understand stuff like speed limits,
right-of-way, lane closures, crosswalks...all of which are marked
differently than they are here.
Where to go: Get a reasonable map. Now look at the area starting roughly
Worcestershire, through Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Somerset and into
Devon. That's the main cider area. (Sorry, Roy!) Look at the ukcider
wiki. I'll add more on particular cidermakers worth visiting in subsequent
postings.
Where to stay: I'd say forget hotels, because you need to get out of the
cities. Also, the tourist hotels are expensive and the food is...well...
it's probably why the UK has an (undeserved) bad rep for cuisine. Instead,
try a B&B, or rent one of the many little cottages available, where you
can do your own cooking if you like. (The UK phrase is "self-catering".)
We like the last because (a) we cook at home most of the time anyway, YMMV;
(b) it saves a lot of money; (c) we get to shop the everyday stores--super-
markets, butchers, bakers, greengrocers--and get a little more of the
experience of being there. And you might be surprised at the ciders
you'll find in a supermarket (right, Gary?:-)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1321
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