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Cider Digest #1352
Subject: Cider Digest #1352, 14 November 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1352 14 November 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Drawing Off Wooden Barrel ("Colin Bailey")
Re: Cider Digest #1351, 12 November 2006 (Denise Elliott)
RE: Confused Campden ("Peter Karpien")
fruit flies ("diane denis")
winter banana ("Mike Beck")
This just isn't going right. (Denise Elliott)
fermentation caution re "Big Cider" (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Drawing Off Wooden Barrel
From: "Colin Bailey" <morganhillphysics@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:22:56 -0500
Hi
Just joined the board and am doing my first batch. I will admit I am
not flying completely blind, though I bought the cider from a local
orchard who does a year end Hard Cider batch and I couldn't begin to
tell you what the apple variety is! My dad used to make about 120
gallons a year, and I am using his recipe, so that much will be
standard. I have also brewed beer a plenty, so am not new to brewing.
Anyways, here's my scenario. 45 gallons of cider in a 53 gallon
whiskey barrel. I am using papa's recipe (know it's simple, but also
know it works, 2 lbs brown sugar, 1 lb honey, and 1lb suspended raisins)
and know it'll brew fine, but here's where my own confusion comes into
play. Dad always used to leave it in the barrel, and draw off the spigot
when he wanted a drink (throughout the year!). He had taken the airlock
off, and put a solid bung in the top hole, then let the pressure release
(so no hydraulic) by backdrawing the air through the spigot. This scares
the heck out of me. Isn't that going to spoil the batch?
I am planning a similar scenario. I plan on drawing off of the
barrel throughout the year. How do you keep the batch from going bad? I
was considering putting a glass tube in the drilled bung, with an air
filter (like used inline in the medical field for oxygen) inline to keep
out any bacteria, and then maybe go through some kind of airlock to
control airflow. A friend mentioned a heavy gas that he has added to his
beer before that "floats" on top of the beer surface, keeping other
elements above this layer. And Ian Merwin mentioned pouring 1/2 inch of
olive oil on top of the batch in the same fashion - to float on top, and
separate the cider from the air above.
Anyone else have a suggestion, or able to tell me what they do?
Thanks
Colin
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1351, 12 November 2006
From: Denise Elliott <delliott1@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:43:01 -0500
To get rid of fruit flies...
I had this problem last year, so many fruit flies hovered in my
kitchen that there would be a cloud of them anytime you moved. So, an
old wise woman down the street told me to try this. Take a jar with a
wide neck. Place about 1/4 inch of apple juice or sweet wine down
inside. Now place a funnel directly into the neck of the bottle. The
fruit flies find their way in but can't figure out how to get back
out and eventually they drown. It was not 100% effective, but cut way
down on the numbers and eventually they disappeared all together.
Good luck!
Denise
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Confused Campden
From: "Peter Karpien" <pkarpien@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:36:58 -0500
I read with interest the discussion regarding Campden tablets in Digest
#1350 and #1349 and would like to understand whether my calculations and
approach to using potassium metabisulfite are on target.
I just put 50 gallons of cider down to ferment for the season. This is my
second year doing 50 gallon batches using bourbon barrels for fermenting.
In order to kill the undesirable yeast and bacteria and allow the natural
good yeast to do their work I added a 1/4 teaspoon (US teaspoon) of
potassium metabisulfite powder to every 5 gallons of juice. I did this per
the package instruction to achieve 45 - 50 ppm SO2. The readings before
adding the sulfite were:
Tartaric Acid, .4%
OG was 1.054 after adding 10 lbs of white sugar.
So, did I add enough metabisulfite to knock down the undesirable beasties
and allow the good ones to thrive? After one week in the barrel no sign of
fermentation. The average basement temp has been around 62F.
Second question, I have an air lock (rubber drilled bung, hose & gallon of
H20 with SO2) on the barrel and very little cider exposed to air in the
barrel. Should I be at all concerned about not having enough air to get the
fermentation going?
For reference, last year I basically did the same procedure, but didn't
sulfite prior to fermentation. I ended up with some very dry cider and it
has gotten good reviews from family and friends I also learned that racking
the cider from the barrel is an important step.
Please let me know what you think and whether there are any major flaws in
my calculations. If anyone can also recommend a good book with advice on
cider fermentation specifics I would appreciate it.
Cheers,
Peter
Rochester, New York
pkarpien@frontiernet.net
------------------------------
Subject: fruit flies
From: "diane denis" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:14:39 -0500
Add a drop of dishe's detergent to an once of alcoolic beverage (wine,
cider, etc) in a glass ,mixe well .Flies will be caught by the soapy
texture ,and drowned . Use many glasses if infestation is serious. Renew
when saturated.
------------------------------
Subject: winter banana
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:18:04 -0500
I have just made my first batch of cider from classic apple varieties i.e.
Golden Russets, Hyslop Crabs, Winter Banana, Permain, & a bright yellow
apple that was very tart and a little astringent. (Do not know what it was).
(about 200 gallons total)
My question is... Does anyone press Winter Banana in the spring when the
flavor changes to its more banana character. These apple eat nicely out of
hand now. Not much of the banana character at this point.
Love to hear if any one else uses Winter Banana. They make a great
pollinator in the orchard. Some years they produce a nice clean crop I
could sell for fresh.
mike beck
st. johns, michigan
------------------------------
Subject: This just isn't going right.
From: Denise Elliott <delliott1@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:43:24 -0500
I am making my first cider. I have a lot of experience brewing beer,
and none with cider. I followed the directions on the cornell site to
add 1 lb of sugar for every 1 gal of cider. I used a really high
quality cider and a packet of dry champagne yeast. The cider has been
in there for about 5 weeks now and it is very very dry, almost dry
like vodka. It is also highly carbonated. I know it isn't done yet, I
am keeping it in the cellar now at about 55* F with an airlock on it.
My local brew supply suggested I add 2 lbs of raisins at this point
to sweeten it up. I added 1 lb so far, but with the high carbonation
it foams all up and I can't get anything in without overflowing. So I
am waiting till it settles to add the second pound. I see some people
sweeten prior to bottling with honey, but since I used champagne
yeast I believe that is a recipe for bottle bombs. I had planned on
priming the bottles with concentrated apple juice and per my brew
supply I will need to add another packet of yeast if I let this go on
too long. Does anyone know what I should do to bring this back to
being a sweet hard cider that is sparkling? Or will the raisins be
enough? I can't seem to find any info anywhere else about making it
sweet and keeping it sparkling in the bottle, everything is about
keeping it still. Thanks in advance!
Denise
------------------------------
Subject: fermentation caution re "Big Cider"
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:42:47 -0700
In the last Cider Digest, Robert Lewis <mazerrob@yahoo.com> wrote:
>...I often find that my ciders do turn out too dry, and I cheat, I always
> taste it before bottleing, and if it's tart, i toss in a few ounces of
> honey.
> I use beer yeast on cider, and the honey has sugars that beer years cant
> handle...
This is very much NOT the case. The sugars in honey are almost entirely
fermentable by any yeast. (That's how mead can be made completely dry.)
If you're adding honey at bottling and it's not fermenting out, it's likely
for one of several reasons...and the caution is that these are not
dependable in preventing in-bottle fermentation...so depending on whether
you add a little bit of honey or a lot, you could end up with a once-
again-dry cider with carbonation, or a bottle-bomb.
One possibility is that the yeast is essentially dormant by the time you
bottle, and you then drink the cider before the yeast can get going again.
But note I said "dormant", not "dead"...the yeast can slowly wake up and
eventually ferment out the honey you've added.
Another similar effect is that if the yeast is decently flocculent, it
will have settled out by bottling to where there's a very small population.
In the presence of fermentable sugar, it starts building up again, but
since it's starting from such a small population it takes quite a while.
So maybe you're OK until you have a particularly good batch and you set
aside some bottles for longer keeping...and those start fermenting in
bottle.
Yet another possibility is that your cider finished with enough alcohol
to (nearly) kill off the particular yeast you used, so that fermentation
wouldn't restart. Some beer yeasts do have low alcohol tolerance. But
this can also go awry because the alcohol tolerance of yeast varies not
only with the strain, but from one lot to the next and with environmental
factors (nutrients, temperature). So you may succeed in adding honey to
a stopped fermentation and keeping it for ten batches, then on the eleventh
batch something is different and fermentation restarts in the bottle.
My observations on fermentation re-starting in bottle after a while are,
to put it subtly, "not entirely theoretical".
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1352
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