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Cider Digest #1346
Subject: Cider Digest #1346, 24 October 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1346 24 October 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
In case you missed digest 1345 (Cider Digest Admin)
Re: Timing (grinding to maceration to fermentation) ("Charles McGonegal")
Apples in Prossor ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
priming sugar us/uk measure ("diane denis")
Re: Ice cider (Claude Jolicoeur)
Timing (Andrew Lea)
Sodium metabisulfite (Terry Bradshaw)
Ice Cider Standards ("McGonegal, Charles")
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Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: In case you missed digest 1345
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:42:16 -0600 (MDT)
There was a problem with Cider Digest issue 1345--previous digest to this
one--which caused a handful of mailers to reject it. If you missed that
digest, please pick up a copy from the archive. Other than a few actual
bounces received here, I have no way of knowing who might have missed it.
The problem was that one article mentioned a URL within a particular ISP
that is a terrible host of spam ads, so some mailers rejected the digest
because of it. The archived copy of CD 1345 has had this URL removed.
Sorry to have to do that, but sometimes you're known by the company you
keep.
(The archive location is given in the header of each digest.)
- -da janitor
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Timing (grinding to maceration to fermentation)
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:59:31 -0500 (CDT)
Jason,
I do not macerate twixt grinding and pressing at all. 20-30 minutes max,
and only because we grind a box, then pump the pomace over to the press.
And this is for logistical reasons only - no place to store an extended
maceration to experiment with. My reading of Warcollier cum Charley is
that it's easy to have a maceration backfire unless you're intentionally
inerting the pomace storage with N2 or CO2.
I do not sulfite prefermentation, only post.
I pitch dry commercial yeast directly onto the juice surface without prior
rehydration. That slows the start of fermentation somewhat, and I assume
it begins with wild yeast and ends with with the commercial.
Now, I admit that I'm on the new side as a commercial producer (5 years) -
but so far no one has been able to describe 'cidery' character to me (or
what 'rough' means, or what 'scrumpy' is) in terms that don't sound like
faults to me.
Andrew Lea has noted not to underestimate the effect of CO2 on taste
perception. I'd like to suggest that volatile acidity (aka vinegar) is
important in the perception of cider. And that whether it's perceived as
good or bad depends on where you're from and your experience with it. My
local market, for instance, won't tolerate much.
As I gain experience, I'm coming to the conclusion that fruit handling
_before_ grinding (tree to mill) has a bigger role in final flavor than I
might have guessed at the start.
<quote who="rotread@localnet.com">
>
> I am curious to hear different cidermakers practices and thoughts on
> this pressing issue.
>
> Jason MacArthur
> Marlboro, Vt.
- --
"This discussion may also be of some service to the future of Cider, if
it clears up any confusion which may have existed as to the great
difference between a real sparkling Cider, made by the expensive
processes described, and the muddy imitations which, fizzing in beer
bottles, masquerade to the detriment and prejudice of the genuine
product."
Revival of Cider, HP Bulmer & Co. ca. 1908
Charles McGonegal
President / Cidermaker
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Apples in Prossor
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:53:27 -0700
Bob, check with the research station in Prossor, they have several cider
varieties in their virus free orchard. In addition there is a large
collection of cider varieties at the Mt. Vernon Research Station in Western
Washington. You should be able to plant a wide variety of cider apples being
in the middle of fruit country and get lots of advice from your neighbors. I
would encourage you to give it a try, be advised that there is a perception
that cider varieties grown in a hot climate such as yours produce an
inferior fruit to that fruit grown in more temperate climates. This
perception is based on antidotal evidence which suggests that tannin levels
are lower in apples grown in warmer climates but I do not think that much
research is available on the subject.
------------------------------
Subject: priming sugar us/uk measure
From: "diane denis" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:52:10 -0400
A US gallon = 3.78 Liter / 128 0nces = 29.53 ML
A UK gallon = 4.54 Liter / 160 Onces= 28.37 ML
If calculation are made in metric measure....... no problem, but if you get
info from UK / US/ CA books, there can be confusion as the once is slightly
different . This will not affect general /average users, but if precision
is to be the rule, care should be taken when using onces . There is a 1%
difference in US/UK once !
Using books from both Country, it took me a while to understand this little
difference when comparing results !!!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Ice cider
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:15:46 -0400
In Cider Digest #1345, 19 October 2006, it was written
>Subject: ice cider
>From: "White Winter Winery, Inc." <goodmead@cheqnet.net>
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:45:33 -0500
>
>Does anyone have the specific requirements for making ice cider? (with
>fruit hanging till harvest)
> what are the harvest temp parameters?
> brix requirements?
> ABV requirements?
> others that I need to know?
Jon,
If you look in the archives of the digest, you will find quite a few
informative notes on the subject.
You will also find some infos if you go to the following URL:
http://www.cidredeglace.com/cidredeglace.html
Also, keep in mind that the story of apples freezing on the tree is pretty
folkloric - no cidrerie that do ice cider on a commercial scale could
afford this (even if they claim they do it, they only do it for a very
small fraction of the crop)- it would cost over 100$ for a small bottle.
Most cidreries pick the apples normally and store them in large bins
outside, so they can freeze hard during all winter and go through
freeze-thaw cycles when spring comes. They usually press when the apples
are still partially frozen by March - i.e. the apples have started to
become soft from thawing, but some ice cristals (which are pure water) are
still present in the fruit so the juice would have a larger concentration
of sugar and acids. Some of the concentration is also obtained from
evaporation (or, rather, sublimation from ice to vapor) during winter. Some
producers also do it by osmosis, but this should not be accepted...
Claude Jolicoeur
Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: Timing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:21:11 +0100
Jason MacArthur wrote:
> One of the (many) areas of cidermaking about which I feel I understand
> very little is that of pre-fermentative oxidation. Specifically, what
> effects are there on the flavor of the cider from allowing the pomace
> to sit for more or less time between grinding and pressing, and from
> allowing the must to sit for more or less time after pressing and
> before sulfiting and/or the pitching of commercial yeast.
There are several issues here and not all are concerned with oxidation.
When apple pulp is milled, a whole bag of previously isolated
substrates and enzymes are brought into contact and all hell breaks
loose. But we can distinguish four known areas of change:
1. Oxidation of apple phenolics or 'tannins' by air and
polyphenoloxidase. This is why the pulp goes brown. But look carefully
- - it only browns in the first couple of inches where the air can get to
it. Below that, it's colourless. So the extent of browning depends on
the thicknesss of the pulp layer as well as time of exposure. Over
several hours (and certainly overnight) the 'tannins' polymerise and tan
themselves onto the apple pulp if air is present. This means they are
removed from the system after pressing. Hence air oxidation of pulp is
one way of reducing the tannin content. To an extent, if done briefly,
it also promotes the soluble colour but if overdone it actually removes
colour because the coloured material no longer remains soluble but is
taken back onto the pulp. This is the basis of the hyperoxidation
technique used (on grapes) in some warm climates for making white wines
which are then naturally protected against further browning since the
colour and tannin has been removed onto the pomace.
2. Oxidation of apple fatty acids and carotenoids (perhaps mostly
associated with the skin) by lipoxygenase enzymes, to generate the
characteristic 'green' notes of hexanal, hexenal etc. This process is
very fast and happens in minutes or even seconds. This is a flavour
generating step and if you inhibit this by various means in the lab the
juice will have very little flavour at all. These aldehydes also
probably carry through to the cider in part, albeit after some chemical
modification by yeast, and after oxidation to alcohols they may play a
part in new ester formation (e.g. to hexyl or hexenyl acetate).
3. Non-oxidative enzymic hydrolysis of glucosides to provide new flavour
components from non-volatile precursors. Eg amygdalin is hydrolysed to
benzaldehyde, and other glucosides are known to liberate eg 2-phenyl
ethanol (with a rose or apple blossom aroma and very characteristic of
ciders) and octanediol. This latter alcohol then condenses with
acetaldehyde duirng fermentation to form a dioxolane (virtually unique
to cider) which has a green and characteristically cidery note.
Similar effects occur in white wines for the liberation of floral
terpene-like aromas from odourless precursors. This enzyme reaction may
take several hours because the required glycosidases are probably
naturally present in fruit at very low levels. In fact, canny
winemakers are now using special enzyme preparations to enhance this
effect, but I have not heard of their use in cider.
4. Non-oxidative enzymic hydrolysis of pectin. Over several hours,
pectin is enzymically liberated from the interstices between cell walls
and so more soluble pectin enters the juice. At the same time, pectin
methyl esterase acts on the pectin to remove the methanol, and to
liberate free polygalacturonic acid. This probably has little direct
effect on flavour but makes a large change in the physical properties of
the juice and is especially valuable for the keeving process. Again, the
native enzyme levels are quite low and special enzymes can now be bought
to do this (cue Mr Awdey!!).
The received wisdom (which can be interpreted in the light of the
above), is that some maceration (i.e. standing after milling) is a good
idea. Large commercial cidermakers don't do it because it's messy and
they can't tie up that amount of pulp hopper capacity, but smaller craft
mfgs can and do. Further received wisdom says there's no advantage to
doing it longer than overnight or 24 hrs at most. This may in part be a
practical constraint but equally it's difficult to see what more that's
useful could happen if the pulp stands for longer. Fruit flies, wasps,
rodents etc will be starting to take an interest by then!
> In the past we have had bad luck with wild yeast fermentations, but is
> there some middle ground, wherein the cider might sit for, say, a week,
> allowing the more diverse wild beasties to do their job and die out, at
> which point a commercial yeast would be pitched to clean up?
Wild yeast fermentations certainly start with Kloeckera apiculata and
end up with Saccharomyces cerevisiae (in both wine and cider). The
fault in your reasoning is that the wild yeasts would not die out after
a week - the cider would be in active ferment by then and no amount of
extra yeast added at that stage would be beneficial. Interestingly,
there has been in work in France and Spain in trying 'mixed culture'
cider inoculations to do what you suggest, and I believe some yeast
companies are now selling mixed cultures for winemaking see
<http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/news/ng.asp?n=58695-chr-hansen-targets>
. It may be difficult to get the balance of organisms right, though, in
practice.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Sodium metabisulfite
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:40:20 -0400
Hi all:
After squeezing this past weekend I dosed some cider with 100 ppm meta.
My method is to make a 5% solution (78g / 1l water) and add 1 ml/l of
juice. The next morning I noticed a salty precipitate at the bottom of
my carboys. That made me think about the salty residue I've noticed
with this batch lately when cleaning, so I checked the bag and I was
using sodium, rather than potassium, meta. I'll be tossing that batch
(the sulfite, not the cider), but it's got me wondering if anyone else
has seen a precipitate when using SMS and if I need to consider anything
such as adjusting my dose.
Thanks,
TB
================
Terence Bradshaw
Calais, VT
1450 feet, zone 4
http://www.lostmeadowvt.com
Juice still available for the 2006 cider squeeze...
http://www.lostmeadowvt.com/juice/06squeezings.htm
------------------------------
Subject: Ice Cider Standards
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:39:02 -0500
In 2004, while attending the Terra Madre conference, I chatted with the
Domaine Pinnacle folks, who had a booth at the Salone del Gusto. They
mentioned that a production standard had been formalized for Quebec ice
cider. I decided to track it down and see how it compared with ice wine
standards.
First, ice wine a la the Ontario VQA brochure.
- - It must be produced as a varietal wine from vitis vinifera grapes or
Vidal grapes
- - The grapes must be naturally frozen on the vine and harvested and
pressed in a continuous process while the air temperature remains at or
below -8° Celsius
- - 100% of the grapes must be grown within a viticultural area which must
be indicated on the label
- - Artificial refrigeration is not permitted except to control
fermentation and never to a temperature less than -4° Celsius -
concentration of juice by freezing is not permitted
- - The average sugar level of the juice used must reach at least 35°
Brix and both the alcohol and residual sugar in the finished wine must
result exclusively from the natural sugar of the grapes
For clarification, -8C is about 17.5F, and the second temperature of -4C
is a standard temp wine is chilled to in order to precipitate tartrate.
But it doesn't concentrate the product - just drop out crystals that
otherwise can grow later.
Second, the Ice Cider standard from the ACAQ - Cider Artisans of Quebec.
They are working on making this a legal Appelation. The original is in
French - I have the PDF if anyone is interested. This is translated by
Babelfish, and I've left it uncorrected for entertainment value.
"Cider of ice": that is to say the drink obtained by the alcoholic
fermentation of the juice of the apples in a hurry cold, which must have
a sugar concentration before fermentation only made by the natural cold
of at least 30 brix and whose product obtained has a sugar content
residual of at least 130 grams per liter. Finally, the alcohol level
obtained will have to be higher than 7% and lower than alcohol 13% by
flight.
Moreover, following specificities must be met:
1. no chaptalization;
2. no addition of alcohol;
3. no artificial congelation on apples, juice or musts;
4. mechanic refrigeration allowed on the cider (-4°C) for malic
precipitation;
5. no flavour or dye;
6. no concentration of sugars by other methods that natural cold;
7. no use of commercial apple juice concentrate of some origin that it
is;
8. the organoleptic profile of the product corresponds to that of a
cider of ice as determined by an interprofessional committee;
9. the cider producer of ice cultivates his apples;
10. pressing, the development, the congestion of the cider of ice are
carried out with the property of the producer.
Which specifies an 'estate' product, with initial brix, final sweetness
and alcohol, but carefully sidesteps the tree-to-press handling that the
VQA ice wine standard specifies.
Further correspondense with François Pouliot (La Face Cachée de la
Pomme) reveals that 95% of ice cider is produced by cold storage of the
apples until mid winter, pressing and then freezing (in the outdoor
natural cold) of the _juice_ to 32-35 Brix. But also that cultivars
that hang fruit into winter are being sought/developed and now some ice
cider is produced by frozen harvest/pressing (with initial density ~40
Brix - wow!). I speculate that since apples start with a lower brix than
grapes do, it probably requires lower frozen harvest/frozen pressing
temps than grapes.
Thanks to Francois for the technical standard and friendly, informative
correspondence. He invites people to his website: www.appleicewine.com
"This discussion may also be of some service to the future of Cider, if
it clears up any confusion which may have existed as to the great
difference between a real sparkling Cider, made by the expensive
processes described, and the muddy imitations which, fizzing in beer
bottles, masquerade to the detriment and prejudice of the genuine
product."
Revival of Cider, HP Bulmer & Co. ca. 1908
Charles McGonegal
President / Cidermaker
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1346
*************************
