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Cider Digest #1343
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Subject: Cider Digest #1343, 11 October 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1343 11 October 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
separating stones, rocks from harvested pears ("J. Kent")
Pear Rootstocks (james cummins)
Peter Mitchell's Course/Cider Apple books... ("chris horn")
Re: question for digest readers - Priming sugar (Claude Jolicoeur)
Cider Books (Andrew Lea)
Priming level (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #1342, 7 October 2006 ("Charles McGonegal")
chestnut barrel (verlindetaal)
priming sugar (Dick Dunn)
Re: Natural vs Whites Yeast and sweetness (Ron Hipkiss)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: separating stones, rocks from harvested pears
From: "J. Kent" <Sheep@kent9999.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 20:40:02 +0100
Dear all,
Is there a washing process/machine DIY or otherwise which will separate
stones, rocks and heavy objects from harvested pears?
As stones will smash up the mill if they get past our eyes.
What do other perry producers do?
Thanks
Jeremy Kent UK
------------------------------
Subject: Pear Rootstocks
From: james cummins <jnc1@localnet.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 16:07:27 -0400
In re: Eric Fouch's inquiry (CD#1342): Almost all European pears are
graft-compatible on other Pyrus communis stocks, e.g. Bartlett
seedlings, Winter Nelis seedlings, and the clonal Old Home x
Farmingdale selections. About 20 per cent are compatible on Quince;
the killer here is that effects of graft incompatibility may not be
evident for 3 or 4 or 5 years. Eric, I would suggest using an OHxF
stock instead of quince -- all the advantages of quince (reduced tree
size and early fruiting) plus good anchorage, winter hardiness and fire
blight resistance lacking in quince.
//Jim
www.cumminsnursery.com
------------------------------
Subject: Peter Mitchell's Course/Cider Apple books...
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:13:37 -0700
>Has anyone ever taken Peter Mitchell's Cider Making course? I was thinking
>of attending, but it seems expensive, and I was hoping to get some feed
>back.
I took his class in fall of 2003 at WSU Mt. Vernon. It was wonderful.
Peter really knows his stuff. There are also lots of contacts to be made.
I even got to meet the fabled 'Der Janitor' as he was also in my class...
Most of my class were folks doing it commercially or in process of getting
their license to do it commercially. But even as a hobbyist it was amazing
the amount of knowledge that I picked up...
>I'm also looking for a couple of cider books: J.M. Trowbridge's The Cider
>Makers Handbook, and a translation of Warcollier's The Principles and
>Practices of Cider Making. Any leads?
A few years ago some one off this list sold reprint copies of 'The
Principles and Practices of Cider Making' but I don't remember who it was.
They were not hugely fancy but well done. I had a reprint for a number of
years till I found an original and then managed to sell my reprint to a
producer in Canada. You can watch Ebay or MAN had a really good page on
apple/cider/perry books with links to used book sites. See:
http://www.marcherapple.net/books.htm
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon USA
'Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. I think
it's in my basement... let me go upstairs and check.'
-M.C. Escher
------------------------------
Subject: Re: question for digest readers - Priming sugar
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 01:47:24 -0400
In Cider Digest #1342, 7 October 2006, it was asked...
>Subject: question for digest readers
>From: "Craig Teerlink" <craig.teerlink@hsc.utah.edu>
>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:35:40 -0600
>
>On the last digest, Roy Bailey suggests using a level teaspoon of sugar
>per gallon of juice for priming. This season is the first time i have
>tried priming. I used 3/4 cup per five gallons, which is approximately
>1/7 of a cup of sugar per gallon. I got this figure from a book about
>all kinds of wine making and brewing, so I was never certain that the
>suggested measurement applied well to cider. Roy's suggestion to use a
>much smaller quantity of priming sugar has me thinking I may have
>overdone it. Is there a reason I should be scared to handle the
>champagne bottles I have been using with the amount of sugar that I used
>for priming?
The amount of priming sugar you added is about equal to the amount I
routinely use in my cider, and I have never had a bottle burst.
Consider however that:
I use real Champagne bottles
I add this amount of sugar once cider has reached dryness (if there is
still fermentable sugar at bottling, the amount of gas produced by
fermentation may increase pressure).
Claude Jolicoeur
Quebec.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Books
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 09:08:01 +0100
Dan wrote:
> Has anyone ever taken Peter Mitchell's Cider Making course? I was thinking
> of attending, but it seems expensive, and I was hoping to get some feed
> back.
I have never taken it, but knowing Peter and his background I don't
think you will be able to do any better. What he offers is almost
certainly unique. Grab it while you have the chance!
> I'm also looking for a couple of cider books: J.M. Trowbridge's The Cider
> Makers Handbook, and a translation of Warcollier's The Principles and
> Practices of Cider Making. Any leads?
There is one of each on www.bookfinder.com at the moment. I have used
this site widely over the last few years to find and to buy out-of-print
cider and fruit-related books. Its international spread is a boon.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Priming level
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 09:48:20 +0100
Craig Teerlink wrote:
> tried priming. I used 3/4 cup per five gallons, which is approximately
> 1/7 of a cup of sugar per gallon. .......... Is there a reason I should
> be scared to handle the champagne bottles I have been using with the
> amount of sugar that I used for priming?
If I calculate correctly from US measures, this works out at about 8
grams sugar per litre. That gives 4 g/l of CO2 which is equivalent to
about 1.5 atmospheres pressure at 20C (70F). A re-usable crown-cap beer
bottle will stand about 3 atm while a champagne bottle will stand about
6 atm. So you should be well within the safety margin. This is quite a
gentle carbonation level.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, Uk
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1342, 7 October 2006
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:18:56 -0500 (CDT)
Craig, I think you're okay at that priming level.
If I did my dimensional analysis right, I read you as adding 14.5g/L
sugar. That will give about 7.2g/L CO2. One volume of CO2 is 1.96g/L, so
you're at 3.7 volumes CO2 - well within the limits of champagne glass.
I run quite a bit higher, myself - about 5.5 volumes.
> Subject: question for digest readers
> From: "Craig Teerlink" <craig.teerlink@hsc.utah.edu>
> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:35:40 -0600
>
> On the last digest, Roy Bailey suggests using a level teaspoon of sugar
> per gallon of juice for priming. This season is the first time i have
> tried priming. I used 3/4 cup per five gallons, which is approximately
> 1/7 of a cup of sugar per gallon. I got this figure from a book about
> all kinds of wine making and brewing, so I was never certain that the
> suggested measurement applied well to cider. Roy's suggestion to use a
> much smaller quantity of priming sugar has me thinking I may have
> overdone it. Is there a reason I should be scared to handle the
> champagne bottles I have been using with the amount of sugar that I used
> for priming?
>
> Thanks,
> Craig Teerlink
- --
"To make an article is one thing."
"To make it known is another."
Revival of Cider, HP Bulmer & Co.
Charles McGonegal
President / Cidermaker
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: chestnut barrel
From: verlindetaal <djtaal@planet.nl>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:53:36 +0200
2006-10-09
Question : does anyone have experience with a chestnut barrel instead of oak
or polyethylene?
I'm now fermenting in the 'madame jeanne' bottles but want to make some
bigger batches. Chestnut is cheaper and I've seen a few chestnut barrels
used for cider in Normandy.
Who of you has or knows a source which has (besides Brogdale) cider and
perry varieties described by Hogg in his Fruit Manual 5th ed. and wants
to sell or swap scionwood?
Dirk Taal
djtaal@planet.nl
------------------------------
Subject: priming sugar
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:27:46 -0600
Craig Teerlink <craig.teerlink@hsc.utah.edu> wrote in CD 1342:
> On the last digest, Roy Bailey suggests using a level teaspoon of sugar
> per gallon of juice for priming. This season is the first time i have
> tried priming. I used 3/4 cup per five gallons, which is approximately
> 1/7 of a cup of sugar per gallon...
The 3/4 c per 5 gal (US measures) is an old standard--not necessarily best,
but old enough to be found all over the place. It's not a bad rule of
thumb for moderately strong carbonation (beer-like, but certainly not
champagne-like).
>...I got this figure from a book about
> all kinds of wine making and brewing, so I was never certain that the
> suggested measurement applied well to cider...
As long as you don't have residual sugar at the time you prime, it's all
one. The priming sugar tells you how fizzy it's going to be. So, for that
matter, how fizzy DO you want it to be?
>...Roy's suggestion to use a
> much smaller quantity of priming sugar has me thinking I may have
> overdone it...
I'd more be concerned about Roy's number. (Sorry, Roy.) Roy's suggestion
of a teaspoon per gallon has me wondering if it was a typo or thinko...
that's hardly enough to give any fizz. A teaspoon per bottle would be a
more conventional figure. I assume Roy is thinking UK units, so there's
a bit of confusion but not enough to explain the discrepancy. In US units,
if we primed at a teaspoon per bottle, 5 bottles per gallon, then 5 gallons
would get 25 teaspoons or 8+ tablespoons which is half a cup. We're in
the ballpark of your 3/4 cup figure.
>...Is there a reason I should be scared to handle the
> champagne bottles I have been using with the amount of sugar that I used
> for priming?
No, you should be fine--again, as long as your cider had fermented out
before priming.
(One off-to-the-side caution: You'll occasionally encounter the idea to
use honey instead of sugar, with a suggestion to substitute a cup of honey
for the 3/4 cup sugar. That results in about double the sugar-dose, which
- -can- get up to the level of being a problem. But if you're not thinking
about honey, don't worry.)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Natural vs Whites Yeast and sweetness
From: Ron Hipkiss <hipkissr@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
"I wish there was some easy way to add some sweetness to some of the cider.
We were thinking that if we used a beer yeast the cider would attenuate
earlier and leave some residual sugar. Alcohol would be lower but more
residual sugar would be left. We are going to experiment with this next year
but if someone out there already knows what will happen I would love to hear
about it. My thinking is that beer has a lower attenuation. I hope I am
using that word correctly."
David,
Last year, I made two batches of pear cider. I used White Labs yeast
for both, one was the cider yeast, the other was the California Ale.
Predictably, the beer yeast did not ferment as far, thus making the cider
much sweeter and darker. I was actually surprised at how sweet the cider
yeast remained, too. My previous batch used champagne yeast, and that
turned out very dry.
Ron
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1343
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