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Cider Digest #1322
Subject: Cider Digest #1322, 8 June 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1322 8 June 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Just how much brass is too much? (bottle fillers) ("Ira Edwards")
Re: Cider Digest #1321, 27 May 2006 (Stephen Wood)
Re: cider-touring England (Roy Bailey)
cider-touring England ("Howard, John")
secondary questions ("Paul Hendershot")
cider-touring England - a few cidermakers (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Re: Just how much brass is too much? (bottle fillers)
From: "Ira Edwards" <ira_j_e@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 22:36:09 -0800
Terry asks about the 'beer gun',
(http://www.blichmannengineering.com/BeerGun/BeerGun.htm).
I don't not have one yet, but after seeing and using a friend's, I am sold
and have one on order...
there is nothing that touches the beverage that is not stainless. the brass
part is the valve for the CO2 to purge the bottles...
we bottled 2 cases of beer and wasted the equivalent of 1-2 beers, where
I usually waste 2+ beers per case with my CP filler and a lot more if I
try to fill out of a tap.
Most of my ciders and Meads are still, but we bottled a champagne style
cyser that had 4 volumes CO2 in it and wasted less than 20cl for 25L that
was bottled. pretty good if you ask me...
Ira
Anchorage, AK
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1321, 27 May 2006
From: Stephen Wood <swood@farnumhillciders.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 09:15:06 -0700
This to Terry Bradshaw (how much brass is too much?):
A great deal of brass is too much. Don't drop your 3-ton bronze statue
of Madonna in Repose in your tank. If any part of yourself is brass,
don't swim too long in your cider. But don't worry about a brass
fitting on a filler. We have always used small brass-bodied impeller
pumps to rack our barrels. Probably helps with the stinks Andrew was
talking about. For what it's worth, you can buy a manual
counter-pressure filler for about $60, and build one for half that.
Google "counter pressure filler," and your fizz will never leave you.
And to Andrew:
CuSO4 (magic blue powder) is legal common in US winemaking (though most
winemakers will tell you they never need it, because they are in such
control). I can't remember the legal limit, but we use up to 0.5 ppm
of actual Cu+, when we need it (4.1 ppm CuSO4 =1 ppm Cu+, +/-).
Depending on the state of the stink, sometimes it's a good idea to use
up to 25 ppm of ascorbic acid before adding the CuSO4. If all of the
stinks are caused by H2SO4, a slightly splashy racking can eliminate
them, but copper is generally safer than air. You can get a sense of
whether copper will help by tossing a penny into your tasting glass of
stinky cider. Even the least sensitive human nose can smell this stuff,
so trust your snout. If you add CuSO4, put it in very slowly, under
constant gentle agitation -- it goes reluctantly into solution. And if
you use ascorbic acid, know that your subsequent titrations for SO2
will be unreliable.
There are plenty of articles about this, and most winemaking texts
treat the subject.
Steve Wood.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: cider-touring England
From: Roy Bailey <sales@lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 09:29:45 +0100
In message , Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com> writes
>This is mostly aimed at US readers--certainly not much at folks in the UK
>who have such a wealth of cider available. Three of us made a trip around
>some of the cider country in the west of England. "We" were myself, my
>wife Diane, and Gary Awdey. Gary will be posting notes on his own; I'll
>try to put together postings as I get organized (which means it could take
>a while, alas).
>
>I'll offer my views and experiences, but anybody who knows better please
>weigh in! FWIW, this was my sixth cidervisit.
>
[snipped]
>Where to go: Get a reasonable map. Now look at the area starting roughly
>Worcestershire, through Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Somerset and into
>Devon. That's the main cider area. (Sorry, Roy!)
I should think so! Eastern Counties cider rules - OK! Try Norfolk,
Suffolk, Essex, Kent and Sussex - and never forget Berkshire and
Oxfordshire!
>
>Where to stay: I'd say forget hotels, because you need to get out of the
>cities. Also, the tourist hotels are expensive and the food is...well...
>it's probably why the UK has an (undeserved) bad rep for cuisine. Instead,
>try a B&B,
Or farmhouse accommodation. Always very comfortable and guaranteed a
damned good cooked breakfast. A copy of CAMRA's Good Beer Guide and/or
their Room at the Inn will also give you a list of local pubs
recommended for their beer, food and accommodation.
Roy.
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor
The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
<www.lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
------------------------------
Subject: cider-touring England
From: "Howard, John" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:42:43 -0400
Dick, Looking forward to a full tankard of your cider tales after that
tasty sip. In the meantime I'll add a UK driving tip to your list; just
keep going around and around those roundabouts until you're sure of your
road, as you have the right of way for as long as you're in there!
John Howard
------------------------------
Subject: secondary questions
From: "Paul Hendershot" <phendershot@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:46:03 -0400
I have three batches of cider in 5 gallon glass carboys sitting in my
basement. All were fermented in HDPE buckets and then racked to the
CB's for aging and clearing. No fining agents were used.
The first one, after 90 days, is clear and ready to keg or bottle.
The second one is at day 90 and clearing well, only the bottom 6-8" is
cloudy, above that it's clear enough to read the newspaper through.
While I've read it shouldn't sit on the lees for too long, I'm reluctant
to rack to another vessel and stir up all that sediment. In this batch
I used a liquid yeast.
The third batch, day 56, was a natural ferment, no yeast was pitched.
It is just now begining to fall clear.
So, what's the longest a cider should sit on it's lees? Will they all
clear over time? When I started these ciders the basement was much
cooler. Will the increasing temperature (right now it's about 60)
affect the cider negatively?
------------------------------
Subject: cider-touring England - a few cidermakers
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 22:42:04 -0600
We visited a handful of cider and perry makers on our recent trip to the
UK. I'll mention the cidermakers in this note and leave perry to the next
one (making an arbitrary choice on where to include those who make both).
PLEASE understand that I'm writing only about the ones we visited (or
tasted at least). There are many more good cidermakers.
It's common when you visit cidermakers to find cider dispensed for sale
from a cask into 1, 2, and 4-liter plastic jugs. These will keep for a
few days at most if you've got a fridge. (Don't serve at refrigerator
temperature, just store it that way.) You may get a choice of dry, sweet,
or medium (the last invariably a blend of the first two). I recommend
that you try the dry ciders, even if they're a bit challenging at first,
because they give you a clearer intro to the character of the cider
without sweetness to cloud it.
You'll need a good road atlas with town index to find the locations which
follow.
Burrow Hill (Julian Temperley), Kingsbury Episcopi, nr Martock, Somerset.
If you're going to the UK for cider, this is a must. Very good cider, in
the characteristic southern West Country style from classic bittersweet/
bittersharp apples (tending away from the sharp overall). There's cider
from casks (better), or cider in bottles which I believe is pasteurized
(keeps well and travels). Then there's the bottle-conditioned ciders, of
single varietals Kingston Black and Stoke Red, which you really should
consider in the category of a good champagne. And then there's the cider
brandy, which is as serious as a cognac or armagnac (only better, since
it's made from apples rather than grapes). Oh, yes, and there's plenty
to learn as well as to drink!
Hecks, Street, Somerset. (Street is the town.) Interesting variety of
ciders--a few from cask, more in bottle, also perry. They also have a
farm shop with produce for sale...stop in, buy the veggies for dinner
and get some cider to go with. I've generally liked their ciders, more
the dry end. You may get a chance to chat a bit with the cidermakers,
although they're rather reserved.
Rich's, Watchfield, nr Highfield, Somerset. Simple selection of good
ciders. The actual cidery location has a small museum of interesting
old equipment, but overall not a lot there. The shop has their ciders
from cask, a few other interesting beverages (such as a good mead),
and some gift items, but it's not a must-see. However, Rich's is a
large enough producer to be found in various shops around Somerset, and
their ciders are very good traditional Somerset style, so if you find
them it's worth picking up a jug.
We found a number of cidermakers at a food/drink festival in Tewkesbury,
but didn't visit them otherwise. Three of note:
Minchew (Kevin Minchew): limited selection since he's about out for
previous years and not selling last year yet, as I gathered. He
had a bit of one award-winner at a (to me) ridiculous price.
Gwatkin (Denis Gwatkin): good variety of ciders and perries. His rep
is "variable"--either very good or off--but everything we tried was
good.
Orchard (Keith Orchard): really good, although I didn't try a lot. He
had good perries, in particular a Blakeney Red.
Wilkins (Roger Wilkins), Lands End Farm, Mudgely, Wedmore, Somerset.
This is a bit of a navigation challenge even wrt the rest of England.
Worth the drive. Wilkins himself is a character, well worth talking to.
He'll be sure you try the cider, and not a skimpy bit either. The dry
that was on when we were there was a bit disappointing (slightly sharp)
but OK...YMMV; check it out. (He might have been at the end of his 04's)
In any case, good character to it, also an enjoyable visit. Reminded me
of home (good ol' Hygiene) in the way that a couple locals dropped by
late afternoon just to chew the fat.
Cider by Rosie (Rose Grant), Winterborne Houghton, nr Blandford Forum,
Dorset. We visited Rose during the May Festival in their village, then
toured around the area near the coast. Rose was an amateur cidermaker
who recently turned to small-scale professional and has rapidly developed
her skill. (If you follow the ukcider list you may have followed her
progress.) She's using mostly Somerset apples now while she waits for
her orchard to mature a bit. Very good cider, can be found in a handful
of pubs in the area. If you can find your way to the Square and Compass
in Worth Matravers, they have her cider as well as a great assortment of
other real ciders and perries.
Cidermakers we didn't visit, but tried their ciders (from shops):
Frome Valley (Mike Henney): a bit too polished for me, but still good
Dunkerton's: various good ciders, most organic it seems, and true to
the style of their Herefordshire area
Bollhayes sparkling: got this while we were at Vigo (subject of another
note). Nice southern style except effervescent; I liked it a lot.
Aspall: We tried the "Organic", which I believe is drier than anything
that is imported to the US. They're in Suffolk but they are using
some amount of traditional cider apples.
Cidermakers who are also perry-makers, but notable for both:
Tom Oliver of Oliver's Cider and Perry
Keith Johnson of Ross-on-Wye (formerly Broome Farm)
I'll leave these to another note on perry.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1322
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