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Cider Digest #1329
Subject: Cider Digest #1329, 30 July 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1329 30 July 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Trip to UK ("Ray Blockley")
Visiting England in October ("shawn carney")
SO2 and Andrew Lea (Sketchpub@aol.com)
Wild Pome fruit ()
Cider discoloration (Jason MacArthur)
Rosehips and Medlars and Crabs, Oh My! ("McGonegal, Charles")
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Subject: Trip to UK
From: "Ray Blockley" <rayblockley@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:21:16 +0100
Hi John Bunker,
A good place to start looking for addresses of places to visit and
festivals that may be happening, is the ukcider wiki.
There's a pub guide to places that sell some form of real cider:
http://ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Cider_Pub_Guide
A guide to producers to visit:
http://ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Regional_Producers
And a calendar of events and festivals:
http://ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Current_events
Late October is good as it matches up with a lot of Apple Day events.
There are heaps of places to visit, but my advice would be to make sure
you take in the Somerset Levels and the area around Glastonbury, and
also make sure you spend some time in the counties of Herefordshire,
Worcestershire and Gloucestershire. From these last three, it's not too
far into South Wales where there are also many producers. You'll find
more details about these here:
http://www.welshcider.co.uk/page10.htm
I hope you've taken Dick's advice about driving, as some of these places
are well off the beaten track, so a little hire car is essential I'm
afraid. The roads are pretty narrow too, so don't get a SUV or anything
too wide... BTW fuel is expensive over here at around =A31 a litre
(that's about US$1.8) so I'd recommend asking for a turbodiesel car to
save money for other things...
Have fun.
Cheers,
Ray.
Nottingham, England.
------------------------------
Subject: Visiting England in October
From: "shawn carney" <scarney88@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:27:45 -0600
?I will be taking a trip to England in late October. I will have time to
visit orchards, cider mills, cider festivals, cider makers.?
I would visit Oliver's Cider and Perry, Burrow Hill, and Ross-On-Wye Cider
and Perry.
If you are interested in making cider commercially I would add Dunkertons,
Westons, and Aspal to the list.
If you want to sample lots of cider and perry at one place go to the Railway
Inn at Newenhan on Severn.
If you are interested in cider orchards Mike Johnson (Ross-On-Wye )has some
commercial cider orchards at his place.
Shawn Carney
------------------------------
Subject: SO2 and Andrew Lea
From: Sketchpub@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:58:23 EDT
Andrew,
I am both a cidermaker and a winemaker, and an Enology teacher. I have
questions regarding sulfure dioxide.
I understand that SO2 is derived from sulphur, as part of potassium
meta-bisulfite, as it changes in an aqueous acid environment. And though
it is sulfur based, is it still considered sulfur? How is it different than
elemental sulfur?
I am trying to understand it from two angles: first as to how it relates to
the wine or cider, and secondly how I can better explain its actions and
qualities to consumers and students.
I understand its role as an anti-oxidant, anti-septic, anti-oxidasic and
refresher.
I believe the EU limit for Total SO2 is 250ppm for table wines. That must be
a measurement of remaining salts in the wine (or cider), I assume.
Also, why does sulfur create a more negative reaction than carbon?
Separately: What do the English call a product that is made out of berries
that no sugar has been added to, but allowed to ferment naturally, like cider?
Thank you,
Ron Irvine, President NW Cider Society
Vashon Winery/Irvine's Vintage Cider
Vashon Island, Washington
------------------------------
Subject: Wild Pome fruit
From: <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:15:48 -0500
I should note that in several recent digest posts I've mentioned
something called 'thorn apple' in the same breath as hawthorns. That's
what we called them, growing up. I went back and checked, and I think
it's likely that they were Malus coronaria - wild crab apple. Perhaps
Prairie Crab, but I don't think so. A small, scraggly tree-shrub that
inhabited meadows that used to be fields in south-central Michigan.
Sour green bitter appley fruit just right for youngsters to entertain
grown-up by eating and making faces.
A quick Google reveals that thorn apple is more commonly the common name
of a nightshade relative in the Datura genus. Not cider-safe.
When in doubt, find a botantist or local oldtimer. If generations of
folks have been throwing them in jam and marmalade, then it's _probably_
_mostly_ safe. (Like sassafras tea :-) Notice the caveats.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Cider discoloration
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 05:58:22 -0400
I know that various metals can cause cider to discolor when exposed to
air, but can there be other causes of this as well? This year bottles
from one of our batches of cider become light green after being opened
for several days, and develop some off flavors as well. According to
Andrew Lea's website, exposure to copper would be the most likely
culprit. Yet I have racked my brain and cannot think of any copper
this cider could have been exposed to. None of our other batches do
this, and yet all have been ground, pressed, racked, and stored using
identical equipment.
The obvious solution is to drink the cider quickly enough that it does
not have time to develop any disagreeable hues. This does not,
however, satisfy my curiosity. Does anyone have any thoughts or
suggestions?
Thank you,
Jason MacArthur
Marlboro, Vt.
------------------------------
Subject: Rosehips and Medlars and Crabs, Oh My!
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:03:08 -0500
Robert Lewis asks about the nature of rose hip:
Rose hips are the fruit of rose plants. Being a pome fruit, they are a
roundish, fleshy-ish swelling of a certain part of the stem, right under
the sepals. They have cavities on the inside in a 5 pointed star
pattern, that hold the seeds. I think that's the basic definition of a
pome fruit. Most of the flesh is stem tissue. Only a little bit around
the seed capsules is from the ovules of the flower.
This is a (if not _the_) reason why apples on a tree look and taste the
same, even though the pollen going in to the flowers may come from many
trees, and none of the resulting seeds will make a tree like the parent.
Most of the flesh is from the _stem_, and so belongs to the parent tree,
not the child seed. I think a graphic illustration of this is the
Geneva Crab. Mine are just coming into fruit this year. The bulk of
the flesh is deep, blood red, but the core is white. I think the white
part is the cross-pollinated bit.
Rose hips, like crab apples, vary in size, from pea-sized up to
crab-apple sized. The biggest ones I've seen were along the scenic
drive in Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore, Michigan. Those rose
hedges made big 1", bright orange hips in late August, I think.
Dan Whitehead asks about Medlar ferments:
Haven't tried it, as I don't have a source of medlars. I suspect that
they will be tricky to handle - in getting the sweating timing right.
That's my guess, as I suspect that perry pears 'blet' much as medlars
are said to - and that is also tricky timing. Only one way to find
out...
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
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End of Cider Digest #1329
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