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Cider Digest #1356
Subject: Cider Digest #1356, 5 December 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1356 5 December 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
resweetening dry cider safely (warwick)
Re: pH after pressing ("Charles McGonegal")
Moldy cider (Tim Bray)
pectin (verlindetaal)
Using fruit syrups to flavor cider? ("mark")
Wine and Cider Fund raiser for an old train station ()
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Subject: resweetening dry cider safely
From: warwick <tokolosh@penalvagold.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:52:59 +1030
Hi there
There was some talk a while back about using honey to sweeten cider, on the
grounds that it wouldn't ferment. Experience of others, and self suggests
that it probably will ferment so that may not be the ideal solution.
I know that in the UK there is a long tradition of using saccharin to
produce sweet cider from dry, but would prefer an alternative.
The beer brewers seem to be lucky in this respect with enough complex
carbohydrate that will not ferment present in malt, giving mouthfeel and
sweetness.
Question is has anyone tried sucralose, sold in the USA as "Splenda", I
believe.
Does it work, or is it likely to get turned back into something that can
subsequently ferment?
Other alternative sugars that work??
Not really interested in aspartame as it has to have a warning on the label
here in Australia.
thanks
Warwick Billings
Renmark, South Australia
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Subject: Re: pH after pressing
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:30:36 -0600 (CST)
Andrew,
Yes, I do use a temperature compensate probe - but not a real expensive
one. I calibrate before use with solutions in sealed foil packets. Handy,
those.
And note the direction I mentioned - the pH goes _up_ with standing. I
haven't tested the TA before and after on the _same_ juice, but in similar
situations. If it were CO2, it would have to be de-gassing, not pickup.
It could be sloppy observations on my part, but I'm pretty sure I fairly
frequently see a pH of apple juice (not pears, nor crab apple juice) pH
about 3.3-3.4 right off the press rise to 3.7 if the juice should sit in
cold storage for a few days. 3.7 is also what it ends up as
post-fermentation. The TA tends to be about 4 g-malic/L in either case.
The 3.7 would be consistent with the graphs on your website. The 3.4
would not - so I think it's the spurious reading - but what could be
shoving the buffering around so?
Guess I'll have to watch more closely next year.
------------------------------
Subject: Moldy cider
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:13:15 -0800
Brother Ronald encountered the same problem I had when I tried to get a
spontaneous ferment without sulfiting the juice: Mold growing on the
surface of the juice. It's a problem that is not mentioned in any of
the cidermaking books I have. I suspect this is because it only affects
beginning cidermakers who do not have a healthy population of wild
yeasts in their orchards or on their equipment. Anyone buying juice
from a New England press will likely have no difficulty getting a
spontaneous ferment going!
As I've posted before, I solved this problem by sulfiting the top of the
juice in the carboys, using a 5% stock solution. I measure out just
enough to make a 50 ppm average concentration in the carboy, but add it
carefully down the neck so it forms a high-concentration surface layer.
This not only kills or stuns the mold, it blocks access to oxygen,
without which the mold (and most bacteria) cannot grow. I've had juice
stand for weeks without mold or bacterial problems.
One side-effect I often get is the solids will flocculate and settle
out, leaving a clear juice that can be racked off (and sulfited again).
This juice is partially nutrient-starved and will ferment very slowly;
once I actually achieved a stable off-dry cider, mirabile dictu!
It would be nice if this could get mentioned in a book. I well remember
my confusion when the first batch of cider sat without fermenting for
two weeks, in defiance of all the books. Some of you Digesters came to
the rescue then, and Andrew Lea patiently explained how sulfite works,
so I could develop my own technique. Thanks, guys!
Cheers,
Tim
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: pectin
From: verlindetaal <djtaal@planet.nl>
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:51:28 +0100
This autumn we went to the Pyrenees where we drank basque unsparkled
cider which had to be served very ice cold to be palatabel for the extreme
tart taste. But I am posting because of something else. On our way back to
Holland we got to Normandy where we tried a lot of ciders at various farms.
One of them, from a biodynamic farm near Etretat, tasted very different,
not because of the better than average taste but it was thick! and still
reasonable tart and quite dry and to my taste that was not bad at all.
This autumn I pressed ribston pippin that had sweated for some time which
gave a similar thick juice.
Question to the pro's of this forum: How can you make a cider which keeps
such a thick filmy texture ?
Apart from that I stil invite those interested to swap scionwood of cider
and perry varieties with me. Dirk Taal
djtaal@planet.nl
------------------------------
Subject: Using fruit syrups to flavor cider?
From: "mark" <mark@thealchemystudio.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:33:43 -0500
Hi,
I am wondering if anyone has experience using fruit syrups for cider flavoring?
I can get really good quality fruit syrups from Poland (ingredients: Fruit,
sugar) at a local Polish market. They have sour cherry, blueberry and others.
I know that one can add fresh or frozen and thawed fruit to cider after
primary fermentation. What about adding this syrup at primary fermentation? I
hesitate to add something sugary after primary fermentation, but will the
fruit flavor be present if it is added at primary fermentation? Any other
suggestions before I go ahead and try it anyway ;) ?
Regards,
Mark
------------------------------
Subject: Wine and Cider Fund raiser for an old train station
From: <erwin12@adelphia.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:48:55 -0500
Good Day
I am a member of an organization that is planning a fund raising event
in Buffalo NY for our old train station call the Buffalo Central Terminal.
The orginal fund raiser was for a New York State Wine tasting but since I
am in the process of making cider commercially, I would like to include a
cider tasting. My goal is to have around 10? cider producers and about 30
wineries. This event would give some great exposure for cider in the Western
NY area, we had a Beerfest Fund raiser that drew 3000 people in one day.
The fund raiser will be Sat. June 23, 2007 in the Buffalo Central Terminal
from about 2:00 to 6:00(times not yet determined).
In order to get out the word on this tasting fund raiser I would like to
know if any web site has a list of all the cider makers in North America. I
presently am searching the web and get random hits but so far no site has
a real strong list. I do realize that this is a small group, I would guess
60 total. Any help would be great.
As a side bar,I am also looking for a source of Golden Russett near Buffalo
NY for next batch of cider in 2007.
Thanks
- --
Erwin Rakoczy
Hard 716 759 2369
Cell 716 480 3920
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End of Cider Digest #1356
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