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Cider Digest #1327
Subject: Cider Digest #1327, 15 July 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1327 15 July 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
sulfite (verlindetaal)
Rose Hip Wine ("Kathy Hutchins")
Donald's Q re: # of cheeses (Bill)
Re: Rose Hip "Cider" ("Charles McGonegal")
re: rosehip "cider" (Bob Sorenson)
Long Ashton Cider (Andrew Lea)
A pressing question (Andrew Lea)
lysosome (warwick)
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Subject: sulfite
From: verlindetaal <djtaal@planet.nl>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:36:12 +0200
Does anyone of you know how much time it takes for sulfite to evaporate
after opening a bottle of cider ? Or are there any other ways to get
rid of it ? Does anyone of you know sources of scion wood of apple and
pear of the english, french ,american, german or other cider and perry
varieties? Prefer to swap with you from my collection.
Dirk Taal
------------------------------
Subject: Rose Hip Wine
From: "Kathy Hutchins" <khutchins@hughes.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:04:20 -0400
From: Dan Whitehead <dantheman50_98@yahoo.com>
> So, if anybody here would like to get a very
> good idea of what a traditional cider tastes like,
> but with no access to the fruit, nor the cider, then
> can I recommend that you make Rose Hip Wine.
> Sure, it takes at least 2 years to mature, but it's
> worth it, I can assure you.
> You may be thinking that this is slightly off
> topic, but rose hips are of course very closely
> related to the apple - they are both members of
> the Rosaceae family afterall. So really, perhaps
> this is more of a cider than a wine!
Personally, I would like to know more about this, even if it is off
topic. I live on an old tobacco farm, originally settled in the 1750s,
and the place is absolutely overrun with wild rose. (Also with wild
blackberry, but my pies are so much in demand there's no hope of any of
that turning alcoholic.) Since the resident deer herd, now numbering
close to thirty, have made growing apple trees all but impossible (I
finally erected individual wire fences around each tree, we'll see how
long that lasts), perhaps I should turn to plants they don't eat.
Kathy Hutchins
Mattaponi Farm
Brandywine, Maryland
- ------------------------------------
khutchins@hughes.net
http://www.thereformclub.org
http://goateggs.powerblogs.com
- ------------------------------------
------------------------------
Subject: Donald's Q re: # of cheeses
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:17:50 -0700
With regard to the CDN rack and cloth press design [the web presence of
which originated with my scan of the paper phamplet], the number of
cheeses is relevant only with regard to the capacity of the hydraulics
you have and the thickness you make them. The main consideration is the
condition of the fruit - over-ripe fruit from storage will require
thinner layers and slower pressing, and taller stacks are harder to keep
straight, tending to roll and 'wedge' various directions - have as many
racks and cloths handy as you might need to make layers the full height,
but some blocks as well, and use as many cheeses as stands up!
My current large press <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/pics-pg/press.html>
was developed from that design and can fit 9 layers about 3" thick with
fresh picked ripe fruit - later the layers are kept to 1.5-2" but more
than 9 layers is hard to quickly press straight with storage apples
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Rose Hip "Cider"
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:12:20 -0500 (CDT)
In CD#1326 Dan Whitehead ponders Rose Hip Cider;
Dan, when I did a presentation for the Amer. Homebrewers Assoc. conference
in Chicago a couple years ago, I did a play on words with the conference's
theme - Sweet Pome Brew. (Sorry, I just can't help myself.)
While I concentrated on standard cider, I did touch briefly on perry,
quincy (if it's really called that) and the notion of medlar cider
(medley?) and rosehips.
I would count rosehips (and the other small, woody pome fruits) in with
crab apples - if you've got a cultivar that is reasonable to pick and
makes a nice contribution, then go for it. I've seen a few rose hip
'wines' from the northern plains. And one german quincy at the Salone del
Gusto.
Other pome-fruit to consider; hawthorn, thorn apple (in the upper midwest)
and saskatoons.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: re: rosehip "cider"
From: Bob Sorenson <natvwine@cut.net>
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1904 07:55:47 -0700
Dan,
The rosehip melomel my winery makes has the world's highest antioxidant
status; twice as high as a French Boreaux!
Every once in a while I send samples of our best red wines to a lab in CA
and have them tested. The lab requested another sample of the rosehip mead
because they thought there was someting wrong. Nothing wrong, everything
good.
I would suggest a mix of apples and rosehips for wine. It is very nice.
Bob Sorenson
www.nativewines.net
------------------------------
Subject: Long Ashton Cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:42:09 +0100
Chris Horn wrote:
> I ran across a bottle of 'Long Ashton Cider'... I had never seen
> this before... I have no clue what vintage this bottle is...
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/BOTTLE-OF-LONG-ASHTON-CIDER-UNOPENED-BUT-FOR-DISPLAY_W0QQi
temZ300004745780QQihZ020QQcategoryZ69614QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Andrew, was this something you guys whipped up in the backroom when
> funding got low? :)
Yes and no! Long Ashton Research Station had always sold off the cider
which was surplus to the experimental programme. By the time I got there
in the 70's, the experimental fermentations were so small that the cider
for sale was specially made for the purpose (this had started back in
the early 60's I think, but maybe earlier). We had quite a range of
bottled carbonated ciders and draught ciders in 1 gallon jars (medium
sweet and dry), plus the incomparable perry. By the early 80's we were
selling a fair bit, which occupied two full-time ciderhouse staff and a
couple of part-timers (not sure they were all paid for by the cider
though) and had a good local market built up.
In late 1981 the Cider (actually Food and Beverages) Section was
scheduled for closure following withdrawal of government funding, and
part of the 'rescue plan' to make us self-supporting involved the
expansion of the cider sales business (the other part involved us doing
contract work for companies throughout the food and beverage industry).
Although the cider expansion plans were scuppered by the NACM (who did
not want us producing commercial quantities of a quality product that
would show off their glucose wines in a poor light), we did at that time
're-brand' and rationalise the commercial cider production. That was
when a new cider logo and typography was devised (I think by students at
the local art college - quite why they chose a Celtic script I do not
know), and the e-bay sample shows the 'new' logo. The Cider section
struggled on until 1985 when it was finally closed down, as the rest of
the Station converted to arable crops research. The logo continued in
use for a few years, however, because a short-lived commercial cider
venture tried to make a success of cider production as a stand-alone
business on the site, but that had gone out of business I think by 1990.
So that bottle dates from beteen 1982 and 1990 I think. It certainly
does not date from the 1940's as the seller indicates, nor would it be
'undrinkable' though it might be a little tired!
The Station as a whole finally closed in 2003, exactly 100 years after
its opening - a restrictive covenant on the original land transfer deeds
had prevented its earlier closure. It is now a housing development. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Ashton_Research_Station and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/features/2003/02/28/long_ashton.shtml
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: A pressing question
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:09:18 +0100
Donald Davenport wrote:
[Re increasing cheese numbers in 'Ag-Canada' press design]
>
> Is there any diminished result with stacking more cheese? Any
> instability? Does it affect the juice output? Or was there any other
> reason why 5 was the magic number? Did I miss something?
I don't really think so. When I made my version of the press I scaled it
up laterally too but also added an extra cheese and it seemed to work
fine. Since the pressure is dependent on surface area, not height, I
can't see any *theoretical* reason why you shouldn't stack up cheeses as
high as you like.
There are two practical issues, though. One must be the 'compression
ratio' of each cheese, which must depend on the total extendible height
of the jack divided by the number of cheeses. I reckon the optimum for
that ratio is about 6:1, so if you have too many cheeses and the jack
extension is finite (which of course it is) then they will not all be
compressed to the optimum extent and juice yield will suffer. You can
of course get around that by slackening and removing the jack and
filling in the space with wooden blocks part way through the operation,
which is what I used to do with mine.
The other issue is 'slipping cheeses'. The higher the stack the more
unstable it is and the more likely it is that cheeses will slip out of
line. The original Ag-Canada design does include a kind of 'tongue' to
prevent that happening but I didn't include it because I thought it would be
fiddly to use.
That's my six-penn'orth (two cents worth).
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: lysosome
From: warwick <tokolosh@penalvagold.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:57:25 +0930
Hi all
The winemaking community have some lysosome products which prevent malo,
has anyone tried them in cider?
Warwick
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End of Cider Digest #1327
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