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Cider Digest #1338
Subject: Cider Digest #1338, 21 September 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1338 21 September 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
First time making cider ("Timothy") ("Howard, John")
Apple seeds/grinding+UV pastuerisation (Heron Breen)
foaming cider while bottling. ("J. Kent")
Pectinase ("Silver Creek Cyder Co.")
Cider Making Course ("Drew Zimmerman")
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Subject: First time making cider ("Timothy")
From: "Howard, John" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:35:19 -0400
Timothy,
It sounds like you are on the right track. You may wish to add a little
more science to your process. Learn to use that hydrometer, its not hard
to figure out the natural sugar level in the juice and then calculate
how much sugar or honey to add (if any) based on where you want the
alcohol level to end up. Using a cultured yeast, you are pretty much
guaranteed to end up with a dry finished product. Getting residual
sweetness is difficult and many bits and bites have been sacrificed here
on the digest discussing how to achieve this. When it comes to bottling,
for sweetness and/or bubbles, you really should learn to use the
hydrometer or risk exploding bottles. For info on how to do these
calculations, check out Andrew Leas site:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/
or Ben Watson's book.
John Howard
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Subject: Apple seeds/grinding+UV pastuerisation
From: Heron Breen <breen@fedcoseeds.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:07:10 -0500
Another 2 cents about apple seeds and apple grinders:
Apple grinders have traditional been designed as coarse machines, and, yes,
some seeds have always been ground up as well. But my apple pomace contains
mostly whole seeds or large pieces, as did traditional makers'. How did the
cider makers/orchardists of the past get all our interesting old varieties
and the rootstock to graft them onto? Apple pomace layed out in rows or
applied as fertilizer or feed to animals and started the old fashion way
(or poop breeding, an old phrase). The apple seed is a known source of
poisonous/toxic elements/compounds, as are many seeds from many plants. I
remember reading that the old trough design apple crushers had one key
downside: the apple seeds got crushed up too, and the cider had a lot of
traces floating around. Folks made a switch once this was realised. Sounds
similar to the consistent historic use of lead in cookware and pipes,
yet less harsh. I understand the move toward efficiency, but a puree
substance as pomace material seems at odds with past wisdom. Apple seeds
were used in medicine for centuries, usually as a poisonous foctor to offset
a disease symptom (the fight fire with fire idea that still continues
with modern drugs/vaccines and homoepathy), or to stimulate abortions
or calm contractions/seizures. Why don't those confident of pureed apple
seed safety take a pound of seeds, turn them to a puree or fine powder,
mix 2 tablespoon with 2 cups of water, and drink this daily for a year or
two. Let me know how you feel and then maybe I will be willing to drink
your cider, if produced commercially. If you are unwilling to do this
type of experiment, to prove your hypothesis and debunk older "wisdom",
please don't ask others to imbide. I don't think potential customers, if
a commercial operation, would take the well-balanced argument in your favor.
As to the production of gallons per bushel, it seems that if one is
trying to overcome a certain variety's natural perceived lack of juice
from non-tradtional methods, maybe one is asking too much. Many apples
all renowned for their juice production, Baldwin being one. With today's
dwarfing rootstocks and improved (supposedly) growing techniques, one
would think that satisfaction can be acheived without playing amatuer
toxicologist. Again, please disclaim the pureeing of seeds into the pomace
to customers.
In terms of the USDA and their standards of toxicity, one only needs to
read the posting regarding UV pastuerisation to see that large juice
concentrate makers are the reasoning behind rules, not the little
folks. In this case of cider seeds & toxins, we are seeing the result of
cargo ships full of foreign apples being made into concentrate, and those
businesses not wanting to care a lick about apropriate handling. These
same businesses are the source of the pastuerisation regs that are crushing
many farmers. Here one is adopting the techniques of the large scale, for
convienence. I wonder if as the type of handling and quality between large
scale and small scale narrows, the "local" selling point will suffer, and
a regulatory burden will be added to the farmer. Big business claims to be
producing higher quality, more tasty, farmer friendly food (they are not),
and small folks claim to using better equipment and safer more scientific
processing (reflect upon the comments in the previous digest regarding UV
pastuerization to find out if they are).
If USDA rulings were adjusted for scale of operation/production, rather
than making the small folks adhere to standards which a large factory has
to operate under, farmers and small scale producers everywhere would be
relieved of their near-bankruptcy burden. But instead, a small farm growing
100 chickens can't slaughter the birds themselves, or sell "raw" yogurt or
even milk in most places. Or raw cider. In the state of Maine, these types
of restrictions are present or coming down the pike. While talking with the
dept of Ag here, it was asked of the official, to remain nameless, that
of course there must be some cases of food poisoning or deaths or health
studies or the like to merit changing traditionally accepted local economy
and practices? None had occured. The big operations have put the threat
of lawsuits to the states and federal govts, not to mention collusion,
to make us all jump through hoops. Ironically, these are the very hoops
which large scale operations often violate and disregard blatantly. It
is fairly insulting when a state dept. of Ag touts local ag (Get Real,
Get Maine for example), and then quietly adds new regulations without
consultation or a hearing or science for that matter.
Heron Breen
Maine
------------------------------
Subject: foaming cider while bottling.
From: "J. Kent" <Sheep@kent9999.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:44:01 +0100
We do use a counter pressure bottle filler and the cider leaving the
pasteurizer is chilled to 2 degrees Centigrade. When it gets to the
bottling plant it may have risen to 6 degrees C. Prehaps we should
reduce the chiller down to 1 degree C and try that.
Our latest bulk cider has been treated with a enzyme and we filter it
quite finely before bottling, the sweeter ciders give us the biggest
problem with foaming.
JK
------------------------------
Subject: Pectinase
From: "Silver Creek Cyder Co." <silverckcyder@westnet.com.au>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:59:34 +1000
At what point does everyone add their pectinase?
I have used pectinases before, and, as the results were inconclusive I
fear I either did at the wrong time, or used the wrong dose rate.
I would appreciate any advice on this.
Although I age my cyders for quite a while in barrels, and, in time,
there is a noticable improvment in clarity. It is still not what the
general public would accept as crystal CLEAR.
I am also doing some experimenting with filling bottles with
pre-carbonated cyder. Nothing conclusive yet, too early tell, but if
anything dramatic hapens I will post my findings.
Dave Orson
The Silver Creek Cyder Co.
silverckcyder@westnet.com.au
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Making Course
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:37:25 -0700
The WSU NWREC in Mt. Vernon, Washington along with the WSU Distance Learning
Center and the Northwest Cider Society will offer the advanced cider making
course ?Science, Technology and Quality Control? presented by Peter Mitchell
the week of Dec. 11-15. Although primarily designed for those who have
previously attended introductory cider making programs, this class is also
suitable for experienced producers and individuals from established and
growing cider businesses. The course aims to provide a detailed
appreciation of the underlying science, microbiology and technology of cider
making; knowledge and understanding of hygiene and microbiological control;
a detailed insight into the techniques and application of laboratory
analysis; and an appreciation of a range of techniques involved in product
development and application of sensory evaluation for commercial cider
production.
Cost of the five day course is $845 and is limited to 16 people. The
classes will be given at the newly constructed facilities at the Mount
Vernon Research Station. There will also be a day of additional workshops
on Saturday, Dec. 16th. Please see the website for a detailed syllabus for
the course, workshop and registration information.
HYPERLINK
"http://learningcenters.wsu.edu/skagit/cider.html"http://learningcenters.wsu
.edu/skagit/cider.html
If you have any questions about the course or workshops, feel free to
contact me off list.
Drew Zimmerman
Red Barn Cider
206 321 9424
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1338
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