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Cider Digest #1355
Subject: Cider Digest #1355, 29 November 2006
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1355 29 November 2006
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
a little more on big cider ("Howard, John")
Re: pH after pressing; also sulphite (Andrew Lea)
Keeving links (Andrew Lea)
basic question for digest ("Ronald Hurl")
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Subject: a little more on big cider
From: "Howard, John" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:53:21 -0500
The greatest and worst thing about being an American cidermaker is that
you are free to make whatever you want or can sell.
I like cider because it fills a niche in the blessed pantheon of
alcoholic beverages. A cool bottle on a hot afternoon, with a light
meal of bread, cheese and cured meat, is just about a perfect aesthetic
experience. And I can still get chores done afterward.
John Howard
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Subject: Re: pH after pressing; also sulphite
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:57:28 +0000
Charles wrote:
> >
> I've noticed that the pH of juice right off the press is significantly
> lower (.3 to .5) than juice that has stood for a day or two in cold
> storage.
>
> I haven't noticed a shift in titratable acidity - just in pH.
>
> Is this a known/common observation?
I never heard of it. I've been racking my brains to think of an
explanation. It comes to mind that aerial carbon dioxide will dissolve
in water (more if its cold) and can in theory lower the pH - this
happens to freshly distilled water overnight whose pH typically drops
from 7 to 5.5.. However, that's an unbuffered system and apple juice is
not. Also, the titratable acid would be expected to rise as well since
in effect it is 'carbonic acid' which is produced. Anyone analysing
fizzy drinks knows that dissolved CO2 has to be boiled out before a
reliable measure of TA can be made. But for still drinks this is often
not done. Charles, do you boil out the CO2 prior to titration? And dare
I ask if your pH probe is temperature compensated?
Charles also wrote:
>
>>By the way, as a note on the Capmden tablet discussion. My copy of
>>Concepts in Wine Chemistry (Marglit) suggests that for 50ppm sulfite to be
>>effective, you'd need to be below a pH of 3.8. And I believe that's not
>>counting the sulfite that gets bound to other chemicals in the first
>>addition. At a TA of 4 g/L, I wonder if a cider's pH is low enough for
>>50ppm to have the desired effect.
And Dick said:
> in the range of plausible apple juices, you're all across the board from
> juice that doesn't need any sulfite at all to juice that can't be helped
> by any addition of sulfite!
>
> See Andrew's web site and look for the topic "pH, acid and sulphite
> addition" at http://www.cider.org.uk
A day after Dick's posting, I added a couple more paragraphs to that
topic and a new link to a small spreadsheet which contains some more
sulphite / pH data and a binding calculation. Hope people find it
helpful and not muddlesome. I'll freely admit it is a very complex topic
to get to grips with!! It took me years, and only after I was forced
into it for professional reasons! I think I've got the hang of it now
but...!
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Keeving links
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:12:07 +0000
I added a new page to my web site called "Keeving - what's that?" (see
the menu bar to get there). It doesn't yet contain a lot but it does
have links to a couple of downloads. One is (my part only of) the
presentation which Gary and I gave at the last Cider Day (2005), and the
other is a virtually unobtainable paper on some keeving experiments by
Fred Beech published in the Long Ashton report for 1950. I already
mentioned this on the UK Cider mailing list but I thought I'd also
mention it here for those of you who don't see it.
Andrew Lea,
nr Oxford UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: basic question for digest
From: "Ronald Hurl" <hurltor@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:05:17 -0500
I had a batch of cider get mold on the top. I am trying to figure out
why. I attempted a natural ferment. I filtered out all the cellulose
from the must with a strainer. I think this was possibly the problem.
I searched some web sites with instructions on cider making and no
one mentions whether they filter their apple juice or not. Do you
filter your apple juice if you are doing a natural ferment? Is this a
given or a no-no? I also use a little bit of salt and homemade whey
in the must to help fermentation. I have had great success with this
in the past but this time the whey was old and very strong. The
latter is my prime suspect. The must never even got started into
fermention and it got moldly. There was a great change in temperature
from cold to warm recently could this be the problem? Also I cleaned
my carboys three weeks before but I did not clean them immediately
before I put the must in. Could this be the problem? Should I have
washed my carboys right before I put the must in? Also does anyone
think I can salvage this juice by racking off the juice below the mold
contaminated surface? Thank You for any suggestions.
Ron Hurl
- --
Br. Ronald Hurl, TOR
Saint Louis Friary
831 Varnum St. NE
Washington, DC
20017
202-529-0171 x44
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End of Cider Digest #1355
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