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Cider Digest #1256
Subject: Cider Digest #1256, 12 September 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1256 12 September 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
apple grinders (Derek Bisset)
2004 vintage (Tim Bray)
northern cortland ("White Winter Winery, Inc.")
Need help identifying possible perry pear - Jenkin's Red? ("McGonegal, Cha...)
pneumatics? (Dick Dunn)
Re: Availability of PME Samples (Roy Bailey)
demijon lifting avoidance ("mporch@frontiernet.net")
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Subject: apple grinders
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@shaw.ca>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:11:09 -0700
Michael Arighi reports on a commercial food processor for apple
grinding. I have used an Italian apple grinder which used the food
processor principal ie. a set of blades spinning at the base of a feed
chute .
This was a commercial product fabricated with stainless powered by a 1hp
electric motor.
The chute was wide enough to accommodate any apple size . There were
three blades , blender - like , at the bottom of the chute which chopped
the apples . The lowest blade had a sweep action which ejected the pulp
through a screen . I worked very well to crush the apples , too well in
fact since it rended to produce puree which was hard to press .
I visited Normandy about the time and heard it dismissed as "too mushy".
It seemed to me that the problem could be solved by increasing the size
of the screen holes since it was the screen which retained the pulp to
be crushed too much .These were anout a half inch in the model I used .
In the experiments I have tried the principle appears to work.
------------------------------
Subject: 2004 vintage
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:38:24 -0700
Last year's apples are now almost all in the bottle. I still have one
5-gallon batch, mostly Porter's Perfection and Yarlington Mill, in the
carboy, because it is too astringent; I will try blending it back with some
of this year's product.
The very best batch - probably the best cider I've made yet - was about 60%
King David and 40% Muscat deBernay, fermented with D47. With several
rackings I was able to finish it with a trace of residual sweetness, loads
of apple aroma, and it even has apple flavor - almost like a Norman cider!
A couple of batches fermented with wild yeast also came out very well, in
contrast to the 2003 wild ferments, which were too sour and had too much
FYN. But they are completely dry.
One thing all of the batches seem to have in common: they threw a sediment
in the bottle, even though they were crystal-clear in the carboy and done
fermenting. The sediment is fine and soft, light yellow to reddish-brown,
stirs up easily, and tastes nasty. I have to decant off very
carefully. I'm not excited about degorging all those bottles!
The other thing about these ciders is they oxidize rapidly when the bottles
are opened. Probably because I didn't sulfite at bottling?
Any ciderists who find themselves on the Mendocino coast, look me up and
we'll share a bottle or two!
Cheers,
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: northern cortland
From: "White Winter Winery, Inc." <goodmead@cheqnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:38:56 -0500
Charles McGonegal wrote in CD 1254 about Cider in Norway:
>I will note, in parting, that even the old standard dessert apples may
>be hardly recognizable when grown at the fringes of their range. I
>recall a varietals 'pomme du glace' from Cortland that I tried at a
>distilling seminar. One of the most amazing aperitifs I've ever had.
>But for that producer, Cortland was a late season harvest that hung well
>on the tree. (Even after freezing). The 'cider' was rich and spicy.
>That's not the Cortland I know - which is perfumed, but not otherwaise
>notable.
Charles,
This may not be the Cortland you know, but is surely the Cortland I know
and grow near Quebec City. I guess the producer you mention was also from
Quebec. In fact, our Cortland apples are quite different from imported ones
I have tasted. For us, Northern apples growers, Cortland's from more
southern locations are like another, completely different, variety of much
lower quality.
With such Cortland apples, I do an excellent single variety cider that has
amazed quite a few other cider aficionados.
Sometimes, I also wonder why I put so much effort in trying to grow
Yarlington Mill, Muscadet de Dieppe, and others, which are not well adapted
to my climate and have difficulty to mature their apples properly when I
have Cortland's (and some others) which are productive, full of sugars and
mature to perfection...
So, I am starting to think it is much better to have local apples matured
to perfection than vintage apples that are badly adapted to my location and
do not fully develop their flavors. The cider obtained might not have a
special character given by these vintage apples, but will have another
character, which we may call a local character, given by the varieties used
and the terroir, and I don't think this is in any way inferior.
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec.
Claude and Charles,
Is this northern Cortland truly the same variety, with differences in flavor
a result of the conditions or terroir, or is it a entirely different
variety? I would love to try some of those from Quebec in my far
northwestern corner of Wisconsin. I do not believe I could grow the
traditional cider apples here with any consistency in fruit production with
our short growing season and very cold winters. So I am always searching for
cold hardy varieties with distinctive qualities. I think the Cortland's I
have tried from our local growers more closely resemble those described by
Charles. Do you think leaving them hang till say late October - mid November
would accomplish this change in fruit quality of the same variety? After
several freeze cycles? The cider I press from my own trees is fully 10
points higher in SG then the cider I purchase from our local orchardist.
Mine having been harvested 30-45 days later due to time constraints.
Unfortunately I do not know what the apple varieties are since they were on
the property when we bought the place 6 years ago. They do make a dandy
cider though!
Jon Hamilton
------------------------------
Subject: Need help identifying possible perry pear - Jenkin's Red?
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:02:17 -0500
A possible perry pear tree has come to my attention, and I would like
some help identifying it.
The tree in question is on an old farmstead, and is believed to be
80-100 years old. The previous owners of the property apparently
referred to the tree as a 'cider pear'.
The tree is apparantly about 40 feet tall and is moderately spreading.
The fruit bought to me is very perry-pear-ish. It immediately reminds
me of a Huffcap of some kind. The juice read 19 Brix (!!) and was both
tart (think Wickson-ish) and tannic. (I spent the next 20 minutes trying
to get the astringent sensation off my teeth - but it was only mildly
bitter.)
I tried keying it out through Luckwill and Pollard and ended up at
Jenkin's Red. Midseason harvest, elliptical fruit, flushed skin with
brown lenticles, open sepals and stamen connected near base of sepals.
Eye basin present, but not deep, stem basin barely present. Elliptical
to ovate leaves with round bases and acute tips. The description in the
book is a good match, I think. Jenkin's Red is not in the Corvallis
collection, but I suppose that the germplasm repository can hardly be
consider a complete set of what various immigrants brought into the
country.
Here is a picture of the fruit and leaves. The major grid in the
background is 1", the small squares are 0.2"
I will get pictures of the tree and bark soon.
http://www.appletrue.com/images/unidentified_perry_pear.JPG
(watch the caps on that URL, they make a difference for some reason)
Thoughts anyone?
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery and 'Stillery
------------------------------
Subject: pneumatics?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:09:26 -0600
A friend of mine, who watches my cider milling/pressing experiments with
detached interest, keeps telling me that I should be building a pneumatic
press. His point is that with a pneumatic system, you just bring the
pressure up however slowly you want (to avoid a mess from the initial
flood of juice) and then leave the pressure on. Unlike a screw press
where you have to keep tightening it, the pneumatic system just adds
"squeeze" as needed.
(It's possible to get pneumatic equipment that will keep a reasonable
pressure at reasonable cost.)
Comment?
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Availability of PME Samples
From: Roy Bailey <sales@lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:38:38 +0100
In message , Gary Awdey <gawdey@att.net> writes
>Next weekend (Sept. 17-18) I'll begin packaging up PME samples in
>preparation to put them into the mail.
<snipped>
>(4) The PME is used in conjunction with a calcium salt (calcium chloride,
>though calcium carbonate may be substituted) to help precipitate out the
>pectin. When this precipitates by a gelling process (forming a chapeau
>brun, a.k.a. brown cap) and the cider is carefully racked away from between
>the top and bottom layers it removes much of the spoilage bacteria and
>soluble yeast nutrients. A relatively slow, controlled fermentation follows
>and this is one way to produce a cider with higher residual sweetness.
>Since different forms of calcium chloride are available commercially (mainly
>different in the amount of water with which they are saturated) I'll be
>offering to include a premeasured amount of CaCl2 with the samples for
>anyone who wants to try it for a small batch of, say, 20 gal or under. That
>should help to reduce some of the confusion over how much CaCl2 to add. For
>those who will be doing larger batches I'll be sure to let you know what I
>know about CaCl2 sourcing and dosage.
>
I use a crystalline form of calcium chloride; the formula for which is
CaCl2 6H20. Following advice from Andrew Lea, I use 6 ounces of this in
50 gallons of apple juice and this seems to be the optimum amount.
Roy Bailey - Proprietor
The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
------------------------------
Subject: demijon lifting avoidance
From: "mporch@frontiernet.net" <mporch@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:21:58 +0000
does anyone use a pump of some sort to rack or transfer their cider and
juice? all my containers are on the floor. i know there are electric
transfer pumps- i'm thinking of some thing slow and manual, preferably
with some stainless steel. i think something like this would be in
great demand. doug fincke annandale n.y.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1256
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