Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1263
Subject: Cider Digest #1263, 28 September 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1263 28 September 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: who ships cider now? (Benjamin Watson)
VT cider apples (Benjamin Watson)
Keeving in Quebec (Claude Jolicoeur)
First time fermentation (Donald Davenport)
Over sulphured... (Donald Davenport)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: who ships cider now?
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:02:47 -0400
Jeff Paige inquires whether there is a list of cideries in the US. For
the past few years I have developed and maintain a list of all the
cideries in the US and Canada that I could find -- through personal
experience, word of mouth, or on the web -- and I have just updated and
corrected this list as of last week (amid preparations for CiderDay).
As before, I would be glad to share this file with anyone who wishes to
contact me off-list. It includes a few draft cider makers and "fruit
wineries" or meaderies that make only one cider, or a
cider/cyser-related product. I'm trying not to be exclusive here,
though I have not listed the major draft cidermakers like Green
Mountain (Woodchuck/Cider Jack) and Sam Adams (Hard Core). However,
despite my best efforts, I'm sure that some of the information is out
of date. For instance, I suspect that a company in Phoenix named
Gargoyle Mead & Cider is long out of business.
I would be overjoyed if anyone who requests this list would let me know
about other cidermakers from parts of the country that I suspect or
know are underrepresented -- for instance, I have no producers listed
for Michigan, Ohio, or Illinois, which I find incredible, especially
since I have five producers listed in Indiana!
Anyway, I use this list all the time for my own research and in
organizing events for Slow Food USA and CiderDay, so any local
recommendations for producers that have flown beneath my radar are
especially valuable to me. Claude Jolicoeur was nice enough to supply
me with a pretty comprehensive list of Quebec cidermakers, for
instance, so La Belle Province is well represented on the list now.
As to Jeff's other question, the legal hassle over cider shipping seems
to be easing due to the Supremes' decision, but my understanding is
that states can still decide not to allow ANY direct-mail shipment of
wine if they include in-state wineries. And there are other ambiguities
and hurdles -- including the requirement many states have that the
cider or wine producer pay a fee to be allowed to ship product directly
to consumers in that state. Then there's the sales tax situation -- for
many small cideries, this may present too much of a hassle, and they
will either continue to ship "illegally" where they think they can get
away with it, or figure that it's not worth the bookkeeping for the
currently few sales that they would generate in specific states. But
others probably know much more about this issue than I do and can
answer with more authority.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: VT cider apples
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:18:26 -0400
As I go around scrounging possible cider apple sources in New England,
I am trying to pass along some info. on orchards to regional
cidermakers.
I realize that CD "subscribers" live all over the globe, though, so I
will try to limit these sorts of postings. On one hand, I don't want to
get into the business of unofficially brokering apples and cider. On
the other hand, it's vital for all of us that local orchards continue
to survive -- especially those that grow many useful heirloom and cider
apple varieties beyond the latest meretricious market types like
Honeycrisp, Fuji, and Gala. While there's nothing wrong with any of
these new fruits, I'm on a crusade to educate consumers to the whole
palette of tastes and appearances and uses of so many worthy varieties.
This weekend I was checking in with Zeke Goodband, who is the orchard
manager at Scott Farm in southeastern Vermont. If anyone in that area
is looking for good cider fruit (a mix of North American and European
varieties), this farm is a great resource, and they have a good crop of
most old and uncommon varieties this year -- from Black Oxford to
Karmijn de Sonnaville, Lamb Abbey Pearmain to Roxbury Russet.
Anyway, for anyone who might be interested in obtaining extra fruit for
cidermaking, here's the contact information:
Zeke Goodband, orchard manager
Scott Farm
707 Kipling Road
Dummerston, VT 05301
(802) 254-6868
scottfrm@sover.net [Note: This is correct; there is no "a" in "farm" in
the address.]
Happy pressing, you all -- our own annual pressing will be Saturday,
Oct. 15 at the 97-year-old former Saltmarsh Cider Mill in New Boston,
NH.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: Keeving in Quebec
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:01:24 -0400
In CD 1262, John Brett wrote:
>A question for Claude or anyone else out there who might know:
>Are some of the craft cideries in Quebec using Keeving to produce their
>ciders? And if so, who are they? There's an elegance and finish to these
>ciders to suggest they are doing something right.
> On a related note, Claude's comments also resonated for me because I've
>tried a number of very good Quebec ciders and have been surprised at the
>apples they are using - Macouns, Lobos, MacIntosh, Spartans, etc - standard
>desert varieties that I would not have thought of as very promising. Perhaps
>it is the terroir that is helping out as well as the considerable experience
>and technique of the cidermakers.
John,
As far as I know, keeving is not normally done by Quebec cider makers. It
is possible that some do it, but I am not aware of it. Actually, keeving is
a process that is to be done on low acidity apples, typically bittersweets,
and the process helps protect the cider against disorders. With high
acidity apples (like most of apple production in Quebec), a good keeve will
be much more difficult to achieve. Also, the acidity somehow protects the
cider. For this same reason, it is much less useful to add SO2 to a high
acidity juice (or we should add less of it).
One thing that is often done, however, is to ferment and age the cider in
wood casks. I don't do that, but it surely adds some finesse and character
to the cider.
Another factor that could be worth mentioning is scab. I don't spray for
scab, and most of my apples are quite scabby. I usually choose the nicest
ones for keeping, so what goes into the press is the most scabby. I made a
test once, pressing in one batch some of the cleanest apples, and in
another batch, some of the most scabby ones. Well, guess what, the scabby
apples yielded less juice, but the juice was much richer, had more sugar
and acidity, and produced a cider of higher quality.
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: First time fermentation
From: Donald Davenport <djdavenport@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:58:53 -0600
I finally had enough apples on my young trees to press out a gallon of
must. My first little trial run. And, like a nervous parent, I'm
getting concerned that I'm not off to a good start. Any start,
actually.
Specifics:
pH 3.6
TA% 4.6
SG 1.054
I added 3 Campden tablets
1/2 tsp Pectinase
1 tsp ammonium phosphate
I waited 24 hours.
Re-hydrated the yeast (C1118) per instructions and pitched it.
I've kept the jug at 65 degrees with the plug loose.
It's been 4 days and there's *no* obvious sign of any fermentation that
I can detect. The must is very hazy with a (est) 8mm light colored
layer at the bottom. Things still smell very sweet.
From most things I've read, it seems there should be some sign of
fermentation after a few days with a commercial yeast.
Is there anything I am missing (other than patience)?
Thanks,
Don Davenport
------------------------------
Subject: Over sulphured...
From: Donald Davenport <djdavenport@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:54:57 -0600
I believe I answered my own question of the non-fermentation start-up.
All Campden tablets are apparently not created equal. I had assumed
each tablet would yield 50 ppm, since charts often indicate the number
of tablets to add, as if the dosage were standardized.
I stuff I indicates that it produces 150ppm/tablet.
So, I apparently have triple dosed, which may explain why there has
been apparently no fermentation activity for five days.
Do I have options at this point? Is it likely to start up eventually?
Should I aerate the must? Should I re-inoculate with more yeast?
Toss it?
Thanks,
Don Davenport
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1263
*************************
