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Cider Digest #1280
Subject: Cider Digest #1280, 30 November 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1280 30 November 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: More and more on ice cider (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: pneumatics? (Claude Jolicoeur)
racking off ("Melissa Dobernigg")
Pneumatic's question.. (Randallrun@aol.com)
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Subject: Re: More and more on ice cider
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:18:16 -0500
In Cider Digest #1279, 25 November 2005
>From: "John Howard" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
>Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:15:56 -0500
>
>I assume the challenge is to stop fermentation, so all the usual methods
>could apply: from keeving to sorbate. Dose anyone know what techniques are
>commonly used? Or sanctioned "authentic"?
John,
As I mentioned recently, I should be able to provide complete information
shortly. The Cidrerie St-Nicolas, who provided the ice cider that I brought
at Cider Day, was among the first to develop and produce ice cider. I know
the owner, and we should get together shortly to talk about Cider Day and
ice cider. He will give me all the information many of the readers of this
digest are eagerly waiting for... And I will report shortly after this
meeting.
One thing, on the sweetness of ice cider, as far as I know, cider is
usually fermented to dryness, stabilised, and sweetened at bottling. I am
not aware of keeving being done, but I will certainly ask the owner of the
cidrerie when I meet him, as I intend to have him taste the keeved cider
that I made and that Gary Awdey commented as the "pinnacle of success"...
(sorry for the lack of modesty, but it's not me who said it).
Another point that has been raised recently is on "Freezing apples vs.
Freezing Juice" in order to obtain the desired concentration. Note that
there is a third way to do it, and it is by osmosis (but costly equipment
is required). As I said before, in the future, only the method of freezing
apples will be accepted for the label "Cidre de glace du Quebec". I have
never tried to freeze-concentrate juice. However I routinely freeze apples
when they get overripe and hard to press. After a couple of weeks in the
freezer, I take them out and press the next day, without necessarely
attempting to concentrate. I find the properties of the juice obtained very
different - very clear, much paler, the taste, odor and consistency are
also quite different. Also, I find that juice from apples that have been
frozen ferment more rapidly. However, although the juice properties are
quite different, I don't find much difference between the ciders from
frozen and unfrozen apples - both are good!
Claude Jolicoeur
Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: Re: pneumatics?
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:20:05 -0500
In Cider Digest #1279, 25 November 2005,
>From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
>Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:45:09 -0700
>
>There are pictures of what we used at
>http://www.talisman.com/cider/bladder.html
>I guess you'd call that one a "double bellow"? It certainly had more range
>than 3".
Yes, the type in the picture would be called a double bellow, and has about
6 inches of stroke length.
>> on the other hand, it is a bit cumbersome to use and the setup time is a
>> bit long.
>Please explain more. We didn't find it cumbersome or slow.
Well, I find that such a system is more unstable in the sense that the
press plate has more tendency to go at an angle instead of staying
horizontal. So, in order to minimise this tendency, the unit has to be
perfectly centered on the pomace - this is what I mean by a longer setup.
The other point comes from the fact I don't have a compressor, so I inflate
it with a small bicycle tyre pump. And when the setup is not perfect, I
have to deflate, recenter the unit and reinflate...
For the future, I intend to have a positioning feature to insure perfect
centering and a small electric pump - these would greatly minimise the
inconvenients.
Claude Jolicoeur
------------------------------
Subject: racking off
From: "Melissa Dobernigg" <meldober@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:23:36 -0800
This is my first go at a batch of cider, and so far everything seems ok.
I just racked off my primary fermentation tonight and although pectic
enzyme was added at the beginning of the process for clarity, it's just
now in the secondary carboy that the cider is cleared. Should I be
racking off immediately again due to the 6 or so inches of sediment at
the bottom of the carboy?
thanks
Melissa
meldober@telus.net
------------------------------
Subject: Pneumatic's question..
From: Randallrun@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:34:47 EST
In a message dated 11/25/05 9:50:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cider-request@talisman.com writes:
Great minds think alike, Claude! See CD 932 where I wrote about "modifying
a screw press to bladder". (I referred to the air spring as a "bladder"
for want of the proper term.) There are pictures of what we used at
http://www.talisman.com/cider/bladder.html
I guess you'd call that one a "double bellow"? It certainly had more range
than 3".
I'm liking this idea, and think it's something I will persue, as I've long
been wanting to design and build my own grinder and press.
My only question (today!) is, what kind of valve would be best for this
bladder? Can't think off the top of my head what a simple air valve looks like.
Thanks! and what a great idea!
Rick in Oregon
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End of Cider Digest #1280
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