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Cider Digest #1254
Subject: Cider Digest #1254, 7 September 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1254 7 September 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Article or question ("Matthew Willmott")
Re: Counterfeiting Money vs. Apple Ripeness.... (Dick Dunn)
Re: Cider Digest #1253, 5 September 2005 (Michael Arighi)
Cider in Norway ("McGonegal, Charles")
RE: Cider in Norway (jar18)
New member (Ron Hipkiss)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Article or question
From: "Matthew Willmott" <frothy@grothy.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:15:17 +0100
I remember at school carrying out an experiment where we used Pectolyctic
enzyme or pectin destroying enzyme to increase the yield of juice from
apples. I understand that the yield is increased as pectin is a cement like
substance which bonds together long chain polymer strands of cellulose in
plant cell walls, and so clearly by it degredation the cells containing the
precious juice are weakened and break more easily. In practice I ask if
anyone has used the enzyme to treat their apple pulp before pressing? I'm
seriously considering it as the increase in yield is in the region of 10 -
20% but I have no idea currently of how to go about it so I need some
advice.
thanks
Matthew Willmott ( frothy@grothy.freeserve.co.uk )
Northant's UK
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Counterfeiting Money vs. Apple Ripeness....
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:41:32 -0600
Chris Horn <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com> wrote in CD 1250:
> Ok, this is a really bizarre question.... Has anyone ever played with the
> anti-counterfeit currency pens to test apple ripeness?
...
> The reason that I ask is that the pens that are commonly used to test dollar
> bills as real or counterfeit are an iodine solution. Don't know what
> strength solution or other ingredients are in there...
Since nobody else seems to have answered...Chris, I had a look in the
office supply store. They're about $9 for a 3-pack (stupid blister packs
make you buy n times what you want) which seemed pretty steep compared to
a little bottle from the drugstore that has a lot more in it. I was going
to pass on it, but decided what-the-heck, for science and all that, you
know.
Now, are you sure they're iodine? It sounds right, and the reaction looks
like the right one; I only started doubting because there aren't any
warnings on the pens or the package. I'd think that anything with iodine
would need several paragraphs of fine-print legalese in our ever-litigious
society, to tell you not to pick your teeth with the point or break it open
and add it to salad dressing. Perhaps, as you suggested, the chemistry
is iodine-based but just a bit more subtle.
Anyway the summary is that it just barely works. I wouldn't bother with
it. There are two problems. First, the pen is designed to transfer the
test solution to a dry piece of paper, so the tip isn't really wet. A
typical slice of fruit is wetter on the surface than the tip of the pen.
Second problem (particularly if you try to press the pen into the fruit
to get some test solution to transfer) is that you pick up juice from
the apple. Testing an unripe apple followed by a ripe apple can make the
second apple appear to be unripe.
I was able to detect the color differences on the fruit slice using the
pen, but they were barely visible. By comparison, regular iodine is
in-your-face obvious (and, as noted, much cheaper), so stick with the
drugstore stuff until Homeland Security forces it off the market.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1253, 5 September 2005
From: Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 19:09:56 -0700
On Mon, 2005-09-05 at 08:50 -0600, Dick Dunn wrote:
> Subject: grinders
>I've got an experiment going with a commercial food-processing gadget
>for a grinder that is promising so far...I'll try to report on that in
>the next CD or so.
Hope your experience is better than ours. One of my partners had a
coffee shop about 25 years ago, so he justified to himself the purchase
of a commercial-grade food processor, with a continuous-feed attachment
that basically had a small hopper on top and a chute out the side.
Worked great...except...
It had 2 nasty problems, one of which is in common with the garbage
disposer idea. The first problem was that it required that the apples
be, at least, halved to get down the chute. The pulp that came out the
other end was much better milled that with the Happy Valley grinder
(which is what we got next), but the tradeoff was in the extra work to
pre-process the apples.
The other problem, in common with the garbage disposer, is that the
processor would run about 25 min at a shot, IIRC, then take a 15 minute
"break," due to the thermal shutoff. This made the processing VERY slow.
That was, unfortunately, the year we'd gotten very ambitious and were
trying to process a ton of Gravensteins. We got started about 10 am, as
I remember, and finished well after dark, with cleanup by outside
lights. Not fun. Good yield, but considerable pain.
- --
Michael Arighi
"Idolatry is committed not merely by setting up false gods, but also
by setting up false devils."
G. K. Chesterton
------------------------------
Subject: Cider in Norway
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:55:44 -0500
I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of Norwegian cider - but a little
more second hand info.
About 5 years ago I visited the Oslo area on a business trip. (Non-cider
related - sigh) I asked about local apple growing and possible cider
making. I was told that there were a few orchards in the region, but as
far as my hosts new, all the apples went to the equivalent of farmer
markets and natural/organic food shops at a hefty pricetag. The
varieties seemed to translate to the standard desert apples - Delicious,
McIntosh, etc.
Last fall I attended the Slow Foods 'Terra Madre' conference in Turin,
Italy. Several other north american cidermakers attended, and we
arranged an informal gathering one morning. (Alas, the perry-makers
couldn't attend - they were busy sharing their wares with Prince
Charles). A few cidermakers from other regions joined our little
informal meeting (Hey, the whole Terra Madre event was like that -
informal, spontaneous networking. That was one of the goals). I seem
to remember that 2 were from Norway, though I haven't located their
business cards to double check. So yes, there are Norwegian
cidermakers. But I don't recall that they had special varieties - and
we did compare the types of apples we all had available to us.
I will note, in parting, that even the old standard dessert apples may
be hardly recognizable when grown at the fringes of their range. I
recall a varietal 'pomme du glace' from Cortland that I tried at a
distilling seminar. One of the most amazing aperitifs I've ever had.
But for that producer, Cortland was a late season harvest that hung well
on the tree. (Even after freezing). The 'cider' was rich and spicy.
That's not the Cortland I know - which is perfumed, but not otherwaise
notable.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery and 'Stillery
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider in Norway
From: jar18 <jar18@lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:10:56 -0600
I'm not sure if these would help anyone not in Beltsville,MD, but the National
Agriculture Library has the following references to Cider in Denmark/Sweden
(Close as I could get):
Other Author(s): Mikkelsen, Inger Dam.
Hansen, Knud.
Corporate Author Denmark. Statens husholdningsråd.
Title: Beretning angaaende Forsøg med Mostfremstilling og
Lukkemetoder for Mostflasker : Arbejdsprøve med
Redskaber til Mostfremstilling.
Published: København, 1938.
Description: 42 p.
LC Subject(s): Cider.
AGRICOLA Subject Code:
Q120
Type of Material: Book
Call Number: 390.1 M58
Database: National Agricultural Library
Primary Material: Book
Description: 42 p.
Call Number: 390.1 M58
____________________________________________________________________
Author: Borgstrom, Georg, 1912-
Title: Äpple- och ciderfrågan.
Published: Stockholm : Eklunds, [1951]
Description: 26 p.
LC Subject(s): Cider.
Apples--Utilization.
AGRICOLA Subject Code:
Q125
Q105
Type of Material: Book
Call Number: 390.1 B644
Database: National Agricultural Library
Primary Material: Book
Description: 26 p.
Call Number: 390.1 B644
____________________________________________________________________
On a rush visit, I was able to photocopy variety lists from one of these, but
it's buried somewhere in my house. Also, my grasp of Danish is pretty much
non-existent.
If you ever do get a chance to visit this amazing library, call ahead to
arrange a viewing of some of the beautiful books in the Rare/Portfolio
section.
Sorry about the lack of concrete info.
------------------------------
Subject: New member
From: Ron Hipkiss <hipkissr@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:31:44 -0700 (PDT)
Hello,
My name is Ron Hipkiss, and I'm a new member to this board. I live in
Sacramento, California, and started making perry in 2004. Amazingly enough,
my first batch of common perry won first place in the California State
Fair Homebrew competition for the Cider category. And I only entered to
get some professional feedback....
I probably should have joined a month or two ago, before I started this
year's batch of perry. Oh well.
Last year, my recipe included some homegrown Bartlett pears from Sonoma.
The only chemicals added were for pH adjustment. I used White Labs
champagne yeast, and just let the stuff go. The final product is still,
and fairly dry, with almost no residual sweetness.
This year, I picked twice as much pears to run two batches using different
yeasts. Again, I adjusted the pH, but also added some DAP for yeast
nutrients. In one batch, I used White Labs cider yeast, and in the other,
I used White Labs California Ale yeast. I don't have any real goals with
either yeast, just testing to see how things go.
I look forward to any feedback anyone can offer, though it may be too late
for this year. I'm sure I'll have more questions about perry in general.
There sure isn't a lot of info floating around like there is for beer making.
Thank you for your time.
Ron Hipkiss
aka Cpt. Ron
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1254
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