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Cider Digest #1251
Subject: Cider Digest #1251, 29 August 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1251 29 August 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
a cidermaker in the beer world (Dick Dunn)
Advance Planning ("John C. Campbell III")
Re: getting the most out of yeast ("T. J. Higgins ")
Schizosaccharomyces species (Andrew Lea)
Getting the most out of yeast (Andrew Lea)
Hindsight, a wonderful thing (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: a cidermaker in the beer world
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:15:35 -0600
Those of you who are homebrewers and perhaps even found your way up to
cidermaking from homebrewing might be interested to have a look at the
latest _Zymurgy_ magazine (journal of the American Homebrewer's Ass'n).
Gary Awdey - a frequent contributor here on the CD - has his winning recipe
for a French-style cider (p. 62). This is interesting for the amount of
detail on the process, which is often lacking in cider recipes in Zymurgy.
It's doubly interesting because it's one of Gary's ciders from the "keeving
experiment" that some of you participated in with Gary's help in supplying
the PME compound for it. (Incidentally, there will be a session on that
experiment at Franklin County Cider Day this year.)
The recipe is entitled "PME Trial #2, Batch #4"...a name which is clearly
going to need a marketing workover before Gary goes into large-scale
commercial production.
And I imagine it's a mixed blessing for Gary, since they published his
picture with the recipe...so now he'll have to start dodging papparazzi.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Advance Planning
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:49:53 -0400
For those who live the eastern region of the country, (or plan to be in the
Virginia region at that time) I thought I'd put a reminder in for November
19th, 2005. Vintage Virgina Apples will once again hold their annual Cider
Maker's Forum (the 5th so far). In past years we've had some notables show
up to lecture at this event, including Gabriele Rausse from Monticello
(Thomas Jefferson Foundation), Tom Burford, ("Apples, A catalog of
International Varieties") Ben Watson ("Cider, Hard, and Sweet").
Last year (at their earlier apple harvest festival) Michael Phillips (Lost
Nation Orchard) lectured (I know you ALL have Michaels book: "The Apple
Grower: A guide for the Organic Orchardist". The lecturers are very useful
and Charlotte Shelton and her brothers have a cider sampling of quite a
cross section, certainly culminated (in my opinion by the Kingston Black
vintage from Farnum Hill, (Poverty Lane Orchards) that Stephen Wood & Louisa
Spencer sent down ... and the pomeau from Chas McGonegal (AEppelTreow
Winery).
It's good for you to register in advance so they know how many people will
be consuming the beverages they have shipped in to sample. the web pointer
for the affair is:
http://vintagevirginiaapple.com/cidermaking.htm
but if you backtrack you'll see that Charlotte also holds an apple harvest
festival (not cider oriented) earlier in the month as well.
And speaking of "Kingston blacks" -sigh- My orchard is still not to
"production" and my source for several years now for Kingston Blacks isn't
shipping any this year. (too many local cidermakers in his immediate area)
I'm hunting 4 or 5 bushels total, Kingston's, * *Karmijn DeSonnavilles,
Foxwhelps, Ashmead Kernals, and** Esopus Spitzenburg to use in my blend
experimenting this year. (We get our 'base' cider from Baughers orchard
north of Baltimore each year, and add bittersweets / bittersharps to it) I
have all those in ground and am trying to get a head start on learning to
use them. I know it's highly unlikely (particularly the Kingston Blacks ...
) Anyone having a bumper crop of some of these varieties, that they'd part
with a bit of? If so, reply to me 'off list?" Thanks in advance.
jccampb
------------------------------
Subject: Re: getting the most out of yeast
From: "T. J. Higgins " <tjhiggin@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:57:47 -0500
Doug Fincke asked about starting with a small amount of yeast
and and cider and slowly adding more sanitized juice over time
to build the volume up to 150 gallons. This should work OK,
but depending how long it takes you to build up the volume, you
may run into generational issues with the yeast. As the number
of generations increases, the yeast cells become less effective.
There is another technique you may want to consider. In beer
homebrewing we call it "stepping up a starter." We start with a
35ml tube of liquid yeast, and a few days before brewing a 10
gallon batch, gradually step it up to about a liter by adding a
bit more sugar solution each day. You can do the same thing on
a larger scale; to keep the same ratio as we use in homebrewing,
you'll need about 4 gallons of starter for your 150 gallons of
cider. You don't even have to use apple juice in your starter.
A boiled solution of water and corn sugar or extra-light dried
malt extract will work fine. The only caution is not to stretch
the stepping-up process out for too long; it's that generation
thing again. Reaching the 4-gallon level of starter should not
take more than a week. The goal is to time the starter so that
the yeast are at maximum level of activity when it is time to
pitch.
Note also that you can save off some of the starter slurry into
sanitized test tubes (called "slants") and store them in the
refrigerator for extended periods, then make new starters from
them as needed. The earlier in the stepping-up process the
slants are pulled off, the better (fewer generations have
elapsed).
A google search for "yeast culturing" will make you sorry you
asked this question! :^)
Good luck,
T.J. Higgins
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
------------------------------
Subject: Schizosaccharomyces species
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:22:14 +0100
John Brett wrote:
> I came across an interesting reference to Spanish cider yeasts at the
> following link: <homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/spanishc.htm>
> The yeasts referred to are Schizosaccharomyces pombe and
> Schizosaccharomyces malidevorans.
>
> Apparently Spanish Cidermakers are experimenting with them because
> they convert both sugars and Malic acid to alcohol and CO2. This is
> of interest, according to the article, because it allows for blending
> with a higher percentage of sharp (acidic) apples yet allows for a
> soft finish.
I don't know where you can get them commercially but I do know that S.
pombe has been investigated many times by wine researchers for reducing
the malic acid level, but it has never been commercially adopted because
it produces too many off-flavours. However I have seen more recent work
(2003) that suggests it can be encapsulated in alginate beads which are
removed immediately after the malic - ethanol conversion and then the
off- flavours do not arise. Following that a conventional fermentation
is then carried out by S cerevisiae. The University of British
Columbia work inserting the S pombe malic - ethanol gene into
conventional S cerevisiae was reported in a South African journal in
2004, and reportedly with no off-flavours when trialled. There has
been some work by EJ Gallo on a mutant S malidevorans in New Zealand for
de-acidifying Chardonnay, Semillon and Cabernet Sauvignon musts with
reportedly no off-flavours. Maybe the big yeast companies like
Lallemand are looking at all this, as well as the universities and large
wineries..
One major problem with cider is that if the reaction goes to
completeness then *all* the acid is removed (which in apples is 90%
malic while in grapes is mostly tartaric and this remains) - hence a
report on use of S pombe in Quebec cider (1981) showed a pH rise from 3.4 to
5.0 which would obviously be totally unacceptable. But removal of
alginate encapsulated yeast part way through might be an interesting way
to get around this.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Getting the most out of yeast
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:14:18 +0100
Doug Fincke wrote:
> let's say our goal is to make 150 gallons of finished cider.
> normally,we would buy enough of our chosen yeast to innoculate 150
> gallons per instructions. when using liquid yeast this can add up. is
> it possible to get 5 gallons going in a good ferment, and then keep
> adding more juice(treated with campden) over a period of days or
> weeks as we press it to arrive at 150 gallons? i see no reason why
> this would not work. i also can't believe i'm this cheap.... any
> inputs?
This works fine and lots of people do it even commercially. There are
some theoretical technical issues around adding fresh juice to an
existing fermentation because the yeast will already be in a 'log phase'
at the 'wrong' part of its cycle and you are pulling it back to an
earlier stage, but in practice I've never heard people cry over this.
The advantages of keeping a healthy fermentation going probably outweigh
anything else. I would probably advise though to leave 24 hours after
sulphiting before you add the new juice to the existing fermentation.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Hindsight, a wonderful thing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:54:11 +0100
David Pickering wrote:
>
> The following extract is taken from "A Book About Cider and Perry" by
> CW Radcliffe Cooke MP, published by Horace Cox in 1898. At the time,
> Radcliffe Cooke was the President of the National Association of
> English Cider Makers........ The book contains an advertisement at
> the back on behalf of the Association: "The efforts of the
> Association are now being directed towards the suppression of
> adulteration and misnaming of Cider, spurious aerated decoctions
> being vended under this name, guiltless of the apple, which deceive
> the public as to the real nature of cider"
Ten years afterwards Dr Herbert Durham, the Chief Chemist of HP Bulmer,
wrote as follows in the May 1908 edition of the Journal of the Royal
Institute of Public Health: "Water-diluted cider is a fraud, especially
if there is attempted concealment by adding sugar also?. And later "No
beverage shall be considered to be properly described as cider which is
not the product of the fermentation of the juice of fresh apples....No
cider or perry should contain evidence of saccharin or other synthetic
sweetening agents"
How quaint and old-fashioned all this seems today!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1251
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