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Cider Digest #1250
Subject: Cider Digest #1250, 25 August 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1250 25 August 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE Cider Digest #1249 - Apple Damage ("James Luedtke")
getting the most out of yeast ("mporch@frontiernet.net")
RE: Apple Damage ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Skin blems (Jack O Feil)
Re: Cider Digest #1249, 24 August 2005 (Ian Merwin)
Cider Press Plans ("rayblockley")
Re: Apple Damage - Any Ideas ("VICTOR WADE FLUKE")
Re: Apple Damage - Any Ideas? (Tim Bray)
Looking for Spanish Cider Yeasts (john brett)
Counterfeiting Money vs. Apple Ripeness.... ("chris horn")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE Cider Digest #1249 - Apple Damage
From: "James Luedtke" <james.luedtke@cgi.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:34:14 -0500
Joshua, the damage looks like the work of the Apple Maggot fly, perhaps also
some Coddling Moth larvae.
They say timing is everything for success in spraying to protect your
apples. But there are other methods as well, such as the red ball sticky
traps, and pheromone lures, even a clay (kaolin) product, called, if I
remember right, "Surround".
Lest you think I've figured it all out, I haven't hit upon the right timing
either for spraying.
Jim Luedtke
------------------------------
Subject: getting the most out of yeast
From: "mporch@frontiernet.net" <mporch@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:32:32 -0400
let's say our goal is to make 150 gallons of finished cider. normally,we
would buy enough of our chosen yeast to innoculate 150 gallons per
instructions. when using liquid yeast this can add up. is it possible
to get 5 gallons going in a good ferment, and then keep adding more
juice(treated with campden) over a period of days or weeks as we press
it to arrive at 150 gallons? i see no reason why this would not work. i
also can't believe i'm this cheap.... any inputs? doug fincke
annandale-on-hudson n.y.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Apple Damage
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:05:32 -0700
You indicate that the damage is superficial, my guess is that it may be an
abiotic problem like bitter pit or lentical blotch. However the open pits in
your photos are unlike any bitter pit I have seen. Abiotic problems are
caused by nutrient imbalances and uneven growing conditions. Check with your
county Ag agent and other growers in the area, they will likely know if the
problem is common. I know that there are other more experienced growers on
the list who may have a better idea what this is.
------------------------------
Subject: Skin blems
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:59:08 -0700
Joshua notices skin blems one his apples, as a commercial fruit grower
here in Eastern Washington we have a similar problem on certain
varieties, we call it bitter pit and a related condition known a Baldwin
Spot, As a rule it usually shows up on high vigor trees or on apples from
trees that have a shy crop. It is a calcium deficiency of the tree.
Calcium bypasses the spurs with apples on them and goes on to the shoot
growth. We have good success relieving this symptom with calcium sprays
applied every ten days or so. The product is Calcium Chloride, Calcium
Nitrate can also be used. Calcium Chloride is the same stuff we fill
tractor tires with to increase their weight,it is also mixed with sand
and spread on icy roads to help melt the ice. You can find dosage
recommendations for Washington State on the Internet,search for "WSU Crop
Protection Guide" on page 71
Jack Feil feilorchards@juno.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1249, 24 August 2005
From: Ian Merwin <im13@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:02:50 -0400
In regard to Joshua's recent pictures and question about apple
damage--the pictures suggest that it is moth caterpillar damage, most
likely one in the Tortricid or leafroller family because in the first
picture the coloration around the feeding area suggests there was a
leaf pressed against the fruit skin where the damage occurred. These
caterpillars are actually leaf eaters, but will take small bites out
of apple skin that is next to the leaves they are mostly feeding on.
Sometimes they tie down the adjacent leaf with webbing to protect
themselves from predators, and that also serves to protect them from
most pesticides that may be applied to the trees. Unless you get
secondary fungal infections at the feeding sites (which often happens
later in the season or during storage), these apples should still be
perfectly good for making cider, as the damage is superficial.
The precise timing of pesticide sprays is often more important than
the materials you may be using. A week too early or late, and even
otherwise effective pesticides may not control a given pest. Rain
after applications will also reduce efficacy. Even in dry weather
there is usually not enough pesticide residue left to control major
pests by 14 to 21 days after the last application. You should be
able to get appropriate recommendations for apple insect management
in your region from the local state coop extension office, or over
the WWWeb if you locate a reliable website within your region. It's
worth noting as well that the "all purpose" tree fruit sprays are
usually much more expensive per unit of active ingredient, and often
less effective than selectding and using the recommended pesticides
individually, alternating materials sequentially to avoid development
of pesiticide resistance, and/or mixing them (for example, a
fungicide and an insecticide) in the sprayer tank.
************************************
An announcement for those interested in a cidermakers short course:
Cornell University is planning to offer again this December (during
the week of Dec. 5 to 9th) a three day introductory course for those
interested in fermented ciders and perries. The instructor will be
Dr. Peter Mitchell, an international consultant and authority on
fermented ciders and perries. The course is hands-on, and will be
taught in the Vinification Lab and Food Venture Center of the New
York State Experiment Station in Geneva NY. The first offering of
this course last December was a great success, and we could only
accomodate half of those who wanted to enroll, so we anticipate that
there will be enough people interested to offer it again this year.
Following this three day intro course, if there is sufficient demand
we will also offer a one or two day advanced cider making course that
will focus on cider blending, defects and problem correction,
qualitative evaluation, bottling and aging, etc. Enrollment in both
courses will be limited to about 15 people, on a first-come basis.
There will be a fee, probably around $500 for the intro course and
somewhat less for the advanced course. Rooms will be available in a
nearby hotel at a group rate. We offer this course on a non-profit
basis, so the fees are determined by Dr. Mitchell's contract for
teaching the courses (he makes his living teaching such courses). If
you are interested in attending either of these two courses, please
send me an e-mail to that effect at <im13@cornell.edu>. If there are
enough people interested, I will post the course outlines and
details, and details on the local accomodations and the exact amounts
of enrollment fees.
************************
>
>Subject: Apple Damage - Any Ideas?
>From: "Joshua Van Camp" <jvancamp@tc3net.com>
>Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:24:01 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Can anyone out there tell me what is happening to my apples? I have
>used conventional all in one spray for times this year. Up until a month
>or so ago my apples were blemish free. Now I have all of these spots.
>They appear to be mostly superficial. Any ideas?
>
>http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/apple1.jpg
>http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/apple2.jpg
>
- --
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((!)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Ian A. Merwin, PhD
Prof. of Horticulture & International Agriculture
118 Plant Science Bldg
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, USA, 14853
Telephone: 607-255-1777
<www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/merwin/index.htm>
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Press Plans
From: "rayblockley" <rayblockley@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:25:10 +0100
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
In response to Sidney's request for plans, you can see images of my
home-made press on the ukcider wiki here:
http://ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Homemade_Cider_Press and details of
all the parts I used here:
http://ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Homemade_Cider_Press_Parts
Obviously this was made using what's readily available here in the UK
but you should not have any problems in the US finding similar (if not
better?) bits and bobs. The dimensions I've given are in metric, but can
easily be converted by remembering that 25.4mm = 1 inch near as
dammit.
I would agree with Donald's comment that hardwood laminates are the way
to go for strength, stability and durability.
Hope some of this helps. Good luck.
Ray.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Apple Damage - Any Ideas
From: "VICTOR WADE FLUKE" <vwf101@psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
Joshua,
The first thing I would look for would be insect damage. If you gently cut the
apple open and find larvae, then that is the problem. However if there is not
evidence of insect damage, I would be interested to know what active
ingredients were in the spray you were using. Some cultivars are sensitive to
copper, or other fungicides, and this might have cause the necrotic tissue you
see in the picture. On the second picture, it appears that there is a
secondary infection on the top hole that might be black rot. The last thing I
suspect is that it could be herbicide drift. The red halos around the holes
are characteristic of the fruit's reaction to herbicide damage. The best way
to ID this problem would be to take some of the fruits to your local
agricultural extension agent and they could tell you what the problem is for
sure. Let us all know how it turns out.
Peace,
Victor.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Apple Damage - Any Ideas?
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:04:44 -0700
Joshua, those holes look very similar to what I get on some of my fruit as
well. It might be Apple Pandemis:
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r4300611.html
Or maybe Orange Tortrix, or Obliquebanded leafrollers. Look through the
UCD IPM site for more information.
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/selectnewpest.apples.html
Cheers,
Tim
p.s. It helps to give some geographic information; where are you
located? I'm on the northern California coast; if you are east of the
Rockies there are whole hosts of pests we just don't see out here. USDA
Zone designation can help too.
------------------------------
Subject: Looking for Spanish Cider Yeasts
From: john brett <jbrett@eastlink.ca>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:30:10 -0300
I came across an interesting reference to Spanish cider yeasts at the
following link:
homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/spanishc.htm
The yeasts referred to are Schizosaccharomyces pombe and
Schizosaccharomyces malidevorans.
Apparently Spanish Cidermakers are experimenting with them because they
convert both sugars and Malic acid to alcohol and CO2. This is of interest,
according to the article, because it allows for blending with a higher
percentage of sharp (acidic) apples yet allows for a soft finish.
Does anyone know where cultures of these Spanish Yeasts might be
obtained? I've also heard from Les Perkins, at Wyeast, that researchers in
British Columbia are working to produce genetically modified yeast strains
that do a similar kind of job. Does anyone out there know anything about
this and whether or not these strains are available?
John Brett
------------------------------
Subject: Counterfeiting Money vs. Apple Ripeness....
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:21:28 -0700
Ok, this is a really bizarre question.... Has anyone ever played with the
anti-counterfeit currency pens to test apple ripeness?
There have been postings (Andrew Lea et al.) to the CD about iodine testing
of starches for determining apple ripeness. This is a proven method I've
seen myself...
The reason that I ask is that the pens that are commonly used to test dollar
bills as real or counterfeit are an iodine solution. Don't know what
strength solution or other ingredients are in there... Most paper used for
counterfeiting has starch in it to replicate the feel of the linen & cotton
paper real bills are printed on. Thus the mark is sickly yellow on real
bills and black on starched counterfeit paper. I have not had a chance to
go out and buy one of these pens to see what happens... Anyone else played
with these pens in such a way?
Thanks Dick for running the CD!
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon USA
'When the bee comes to your house, let her have beer; you may want to visit
the bee's house some day.'
~Congo Proverb
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1250
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