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Cider Digest #1223
Subject: Cider Digest #1223, 17 May 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1223 17 May 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Perry chemistry (Dick Dunn)
Acetification in perries (Andrew Lea)
Perry Cider (Scott Conley)
Rack and Cloth press ("D Brown")
small wineries (and cidermakers) win in US case (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Re: Perry chemistry
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:17:07 -0600
"McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com> wrote in the last CD:
> D.Dunn, in the last CD, mentions a supposed perry vulnerabilty to
> acetification. The authentic English perries I've tried all have a
> flavor in them that reminds me (though not exactly) of acetic notes. I
> don't think the French ones do...
...
> My question: Is the acetic character actually coming from acetic acid
> due to a vulnerability to spoilage?...
One factor mentioned in "Principles and Practice of Perry-Making" (chapter
by Pollard and Beech in Luckwill and Pollard's _Perry_Pears_) is that some
perry pears have a lot of citric acid. This can be turned into acetic acid
by some lactic-acid bacteria--which means it can happen anaerobically.
This is unexpected by cidermakers who normally see only acetobacter as a
source of acetic acid (vinegar) production...since acetobacter work
aerobically and actually need substantial oxygen to work. Keeping vessels
topped-up and perhaps blanketed with CO2 won't help for that perry path
to acetification.
I don't know if that's the only path to an excessively acetic character.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Acetification in perries
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:31:08 +0100
Charles.McGonegal wrote:
>
> I doubt that the answer to this question exists within the Digest
> membership (unless Andrew knows), but I'll pose it as something to think
> about.
>
> D.Dunn, in the last CD, mentions a supposed perry vulnerabilty to
> acetification. The authentic English perries I've tried all have a
> flavor in them that reminds me (though not exactly) of acetic notes. I
> don't think the French ones do.
>
> My question: Is the acetic character actually coming from acetic acid
> due to a vulnerability to spoilage? Or might it be ethyl ethers and
> esters (reaction products of terpenes, for instance) that simply aren't
> present in apples?
The received wisdom on this (as recited by Pollard and Beech in the
Luckwill and Pollard book "Perry Pears" 1963) is that pears contain
relatively high amounts of citric acid (not high in absolute terms but
high in proportion to the malic). At the high pH typical of English
perry pears, this is often degraded anaerobically on storage by lactic
acid bacteria to give acetic acid and hence the taint (which in fact is
more likely to be ethyl acetate but the origin is the same). Fred Beech
used to recommend the addition of an extra 50 ppm SO2 over and above the
expected amount during storage in order to combat this.
I have virtually no practical experience of perry making and so can't
comment personally. If there is a difference between the French and
English perries it could perhaps be due to lower pH in French perries??
I can't comment with authority since I know even less about French perry
than I do about English!
I don't think there are many terpenes in pears but there are certainly
some unusual esters (ethyl dodecenoate for instance) which are
characteristic of pear itself. I have certainly tasted some perries in
which this flavour is coming through. Sadly I don't know of any modern
work on the volatile composition of perries which would help us to
understand this fully.
Andrew
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Cider
From: Scott Conley <sconley@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:10:38 -0400
I'm glad to see some interest in perry in this digest. I made some
perry back in 2002. It was/is really great stuff. I bought the
juice locally and do not know what sort of pears the juice came from.
But it was very drinkable. At the time I started it I couldn't find
much info about how it should be treated differently than regular
apple cider.
My pear batch this year does not look like it turned out too well. I
have something white growing on top of it. It has been bottled and
each of the bottles has a little of the white growth on top. I am
wondering if I should have adjusted the pH to be more acidic, or used
more sulfite.
- --
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Rack and Cloth press
From: "D Brown" <dbrown45@vip.net>
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:55:23 -0700
Does anyone out there know where I might find a small Rack and Cloth
press of pressing apple cider? I am located in the Okanagan Valley in
Western Canada.
Thanks,
Dwight Brown
------------------------------
Subject: small wineries (and cidermakers) win in US case
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:38:44 -0600
of interest to our US readers, and perhaps of some passing interest to the
rest of the cider-drinking world...
Yesterday, 16 May, the US Supreme Court ruled in a case on interstate
shipping of wine (consolidated from a couple of complaints) that states
cannot impose different regulations for in-state and out-of-state direct
ordering/shipping to consumers.
This is a big win for small wineries (and we would presume small
cidermakers just as well). They have been hampered in reaching customers
in other states because of laws restricting interstate shipment...in
effect, if a winery couldn't get big enough to interest a distributor,
it couldn't get out of its own area. Seen from the consumer side, there
have been lots of wines/ciders we couldn't get without visiting the
producers directly. It appears that states which do allow shipments now
from in-state producers will be likely to open up so that we can order
directly via phone or WWWeb from out-of-state producers. (It will take
a little while for all this to settle out, I'm sure.)
The case revolved around a conflict between Article IV of the Constitution
(commerce clauses) which prohibits inter-state tarriffs and restrictions
on commerce, against the 21st Amendment repealing Prohibition, which gave
the states the right to regulate the sale of alcohol. The decision went
as it did because the majority (5-4) held that the challenged laws were
clearly intended only for local protectionism. States can still restrict
shipments of alcohol to their citizens, but the restrictions must be
uniform across in-state and out-of-state producers.
The majority opinion was written by Justice Kennedy, joined by Souter,
Ginsburg, Scalia, and Breyer.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1223
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