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Cider Digest #1224
Subject: Cider Digest #1224, 19 May 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1224 19 May 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Perry Chemistry ("McGonegal, Charles")
Re:small wineries (and cidermakers) win in US case (Mike Faul)
Duration 'til whips break dormancy? ("drcath@tiac.net")
The Supremes and Cider ("McGonegal, Charles")
Stopping fermentation (David Pickering)
Frequin Rouge (David Pickering)
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Subject: Perry Chemistry
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:07:04 -0500
Ah, citric acid metabolism to acetic acid. That makes some sense.
It also helps explain why I don't see it - since I try to keep a
moderate SO2 level and avoid MLF in [nearly] all my ciders.
Chalk that up as more cider v. perry differences, I suppose. A
[supposed] susceptibility to MLF and a different result, should MLF
occur.
I've got Luckwell and Pollard, and Warcollier/Charley in my library. I
suppose I should crack them open more often :-)
On another perry note, I will second Bill Rhyne's observation that
customers ask for perry (though not by name). Pear products seem to be
much easier to market to folks. My opinion is that pears (for reasons
unknown to me) carry almost as much romance and magic as grapes do. And
far more than [apparantly] mundane apples. This says nothing about the
quality of perry versus cider.
But quality of product is low on the list of what sells a bottle -
especially the first one. This is, after all, an industry where judging
a book by it cover (or bottle by its label) is par for the course.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery and Spirits
(Or PerruTreow Potent Potables??)
------------------------------
Subject: Re:small wineries (and cidermakers) win in US case
From: Mike Faul <carraig@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:32:35 -0700
Dick et al
this is huge. Bigger than most people might expect.
I am a small (micro by most winery standards) winery producing around
2500 cases per year of mead , cyser and cider. My business will now be
able to support another employee and perhaps even give me a small
increase in my own paycheck.
It amounts to probably another 30-150% increase in sales. While I am
still going to maintain the relationships I have with a few key
distributors, I will nevertheless see increased direct sales to consumers.
What ever happens next I urge everyone to contact their state
governments and make sure that they do not do what some are expecting
they may do which is to ban the direct shipping of wine (& cider)
instate thus closing the market to out of state wineries.
Mike
www.redbranchcider.com
www.rabbitsfootmeadery.com
> Subject: small wineries (and cidermakers) win in US case
> From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:38:44 -0600
>
> of interest to our US readers, and perhaps of some passing interest to the
> rest of the cider-drinking world...
>
> Yesterday, 16 May, the US Supreme Court ruled in a case on interstate
> shipping of wine (consolidated from a couple of complaints) that states
> cannot impose different regulations for in-state and out-of-state direct
> ordering/shipping to consumers.
------------------------------
Subject: Duration 'til whips break dormancy?
From: "drcath@tiac.net" <drcath@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:46:56 -0400
Orchardists,
My new Stayman Winesap plantings seem slow to leaf out=2E A month ago, I
planted two 4-foot bare-root semi-dwarfs in Central Connecticut=2E A shallow
scratch on the trunk bark reveals a bright green growth layer but leaf buds
have not moved a smidge=2E Baldwin, Breaburn, Black Oxford, and Roxbury
Russet whips of similar age planted at the same time have all broken
dormancy quite nicely=2E
Are Stayman's normally slow to get going?
Thank you!
Dave Catherman
drcath@tiac=2Enet
www=2Earomaserve=2Ecom
------------------------------
Subject: The Supremes and Cider
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:56:23 -0500
I [really] hate to throw a little cold water on this subject, but the
reporting of it (in the general media) has started to drive me a teensy
bit bonkers.
I'd like to point out a couple of things, because we (as the patrons of
small alcohol producers) will soon be called upon to come to their aid.
Most recent reports cite about 20 states as allowing direct shipment of
wine to consumers. This glosses over some crippling details. As Far As
I Know, there are only three states that easily and readily allow driect
shipment into their territory - CA, OR, WA. There are about 9-10 more
states known as 'reciprocal' states. Supposedly, one may ship from a
reciprocal state to another state that grants the same reciprocity. But
the reciprocity agreements are state to state and not mutual. For
instance, WI has (officially) reciprocity agreements with CA, OR, WA -
and no others. So another reciprocal state (like CO) doesn't have
reciprocal shipping priveleges with WI (according to WI.) Some of these
details are so obscure that state regulators themselves forget them.
So three states are easy, and about 10 more are easy in theory, but not
by the letter of the law.
So what about the other dozen states that are supposed to allow 'limited
direct shipment'. Most require licensing of the importing winery in
that state. In Each State. A few require the recipient to have a
permit, too. Even most of the 'reciprocal' states require permits.
They range from about $20/year to about $300/year. Several states
require that you pay for background checks for all shareholders with
>10% holdings. Start counting up those family members/partners. Some
require annual reporting of shipments, including name, age, volume sent,
invoice numbers, etc (the details are all different). Along with excise
tax _and_ sales tax (all different rates) Some require all of the above
monthly, instead of annually.
The state liquor control commissions have arranged to have the ATF/TTB
aid in the enforcement of the states laws, as well as federal ones.
The combination is a _tremendous_ hurdle to casual shipping to
consumers. Effectively impossible if one is trying to follow the letter
of the law. Troublesome if trying to even give a nod to the spirit of
the law.
The current case decided by the Supremes (there are other attacks on
restrictions working through the system) was based on in-state v.
out-state discrimination in regulation of direct shipment to consumers -
it says nothing about regulation of interstate sales to retailers.
And lastly, the simplest solution a state has to comply with the Supreme
Court decision is to ban all direct shipments - inter AND intra state.
North Carolina did this. (And changed it to a [theoretical] reciprocal
status the following year. If one doesn't mind the permiting process
for NC.) Michigan regulators are also pushing that route.
You can bet every last dollar that the distribution lobbies will fight
this tooth and nail, one legislature at a time. They are already making
pre-emptive moves in some states. And they are teaming up with
Neo-prohibitionist movements for the battle.
And here is where folks like Digest readers come in...
/soapbox on/
So watch your state legistatures. My prediction is that in the next
couple of years, we will need to mount strong grass roots efforts to
protect the rights we do already have, let alone carve out new ones.
I'd hate to loose the ability to ship to in-state customers, or worse,
to self-distribute to retailers in-state. But those rights are now going
on the line with this decision. The other side has money, connections,
influence and has partnered with strong grass-roots driven
organizations. We will need to join and/or form our own. Don't trust
to the merits of the issue and a sense of personal freedom. They will
not buy votes. They will not out-righteous the righteous. Calmly
gazing over ones favorite orchard, sipping their cider will not find the
hidden traps in budget bills, nor other such sneakiness. Don't think
that your state's wine/cider industry is too small to attract notice -
this issue of about mere tenths of a percent of the wine market in the
first place. Because in this case, control is more important than cash.
/soapbax off/
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Stopping fermentation
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:18:39 +1000
Despite a dry year we have been able to press out about 400L of juice
this year for us plus 200L for a local winemaker to work his magic on.
We are fermenting ours in 60L poly barrels using native yeasts. With
regular rackings and the onset of colder weather the fermentation has
slowed such that after 5-6 weeks the SG has dropped from 1055-1060 to
around 1015-1010. Has anybody had any inspired moments since the subject
was last raised, as to how we can stop the fermentation at this point?
In searching for info I came across a little booklet - Cidermaking, by
Michael B Quinion, 1982, Shire Publications Ltd - which in regard to
producing cider for "the noble estates" says to do what we are doing ie
keep racking (keeving - as in France). Any other thoughts from the
digest would be welcome.
Mr Quinion also quotes that "the pulp is left for a day in an open top
cask", pressed, then the juice is "put into open top casks for a few
days, with a lttle lime added". The last seems a little strange. I
thought that acid was generically good so why would lime be advocated?
David Pickering
'Linden Lea' Orange, Australia
------------------------------
Subject: Frequin Rouge
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:18:52 +1000
Australia has a Frequin Rouge and there is a little ambivalence about
its provenance.
In searching for Frequin Rouge on the net to find out more about it, I
found two references:
Cummins Nursery and
the 2004 Anuual Report from Mt Vernon / WSU
The suprising thing was that both showed a classification of "bitter". I
have acquired most of my cider knowledge from British sources because
Britain was the source of most of the cultivars imported into Australia.
I have accepted the conventional wisdom of four classes, ie sweet,
bittersweet, sharp & bittersharp and now I'm presented with a fifth.
Can anybody shed some light on the characteristics of the class? The
other cultivars on the Cummins list of "bitter" are Golden Hornet Crab &
Soulard Crab (obviously crabs) and Domaines & Mettais which don't mean
anything to me.
David Pickering
'Linden Lea' Orange, Australia
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End of Cider Digest #1224
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