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Cider Digest #1247
Subject: Cider Digest #1247, 16 August 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1247 16 August 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Poly replacements ("White Winter Winery, Inc.")
Gas pressures in cider (Andrew Lea)
Cider books ("Alex Hill")
Cider tasting event ("Spencer Moore")
Cider Press ("Lori And Jeff Dutter")
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Subject: Poly replacements
From: "White Winter Winery, Inc." <goodmead@cheqnet.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:54:09 -0500
Terry,
I have solid poly racks which came with my used press. They are about 24x24
inches and have 2 or 3 dados cut in them on each side about 1/4 inch deep
such that where the dados cross there is a hole for the juice to run. It
works, but the boards tend to bend along the dados rather then staying rigid
so I lose some of the effectiveness of the press. If I were to replace them
I would buy thicker sheets cut only 1/8 inch dados and just drill holes
where the dados cross to allow the juice to run to maintain the rigidity
of the rack. Or just drill a pattern of holes and skip the dados altogether
to maintain the strength. I suppose one could also do as you are suggesting
as well. My old wood racks are built in similar fashion, with about 1 inch x
1/8 inch thick oak strips criss crossed with about a 3/8 inch gap in-between
each strip to form a very rigid rack which holds the cloth in place so it
will not slide around on, and off, the rack. Just wish I could still use
them!
Price isn't to bad, when I bought my bottom board from Indelco. It was 24
x24 x 2 inches and cost about 60 bucks. The stuff machines like wood too
so you can do alot with it. Be careful when you start screwing pieces
together, every joint is a potential hiding spot for bacteria and will need
to be cleaned (as in dissembled) each time. If you can keep it in one solid
chunk and machine the grooves and holes so much the better for less
cleaning. Even consider using a "U" shaped bit (radius bit) to cut the
grooves with no 90 degree corners that can trap junk and create a problem
with infection and takes more time to clean.
Jon Hamilton
------------------------------
Subject: Gas pressures in cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:12:46 +0100
Michael Faul wrote:
>
> how are you calculating the pressure?
[I had written that SG 1.015 if all fermented out gives a gas pressure
of 9 atm.]
SG. 1.015 is approximately 30 g/l of sugar. This will give
approximately 15g/l of CO2 after fermentation. MW of CO2 is 44 so this
is 15/44 = 0.34 moles. The General Gas Law is PV = nRT, re-arranged to
give P = nRT/V. (See
http://wine1.sb.fsu.edu/chm1045/notes/Gases/IdealGas/Gases04.htm if
you've forgotten the physics!)
n= 0.34
R = 0.082
T = 298 degrees K (i.e. 25C or 77F for a hot summer's day)
V = 1 litre.
Substituting all this gives P = 0.34*0.082*298/1 = 8.3 atmospheres.
OK so I quoted 9 atmospheres in my previous reply but I confess I didn't
actually calculate it from first principles there! Instead I used a
very handy rule of thumb which has come up on the Digest before, which
is that SG 1.005 gives about 3 atmospheres gas pressure (OK for a beer
bottle), SG 1.010 gives 6 atmospheres (OK for a champagne bottle) and
anything above that is at your peril! (But you can see it stacks up
with the calculation and you will find similar data given in sparkling
wine instructions eg. 'Winemaking Basics' by Cornelius Ough from UC Davis).
Which takes me on to Donald Davenport's question:
[I wrote "At SG 1.015 you cannot reliably bottle it so it will not
explode, unless it has been keeved or otherwise appropriately pre-treated"]
>
> I wanted a little clarification from Andrew on the above. From your
> website (which I consider "The Gospel According to St. Andrew") you
> describe your 97/98 FV2 batch as being bottled at SG 1.016 in crown
> cap bottles and champagne bottles. It apparently wasn't keeved,
> although you did rack it at SG 1.025 or so to slow it down.
>
> That seems to contradict your statement above. What am I missing?
You're not missing anything. (a) I racked it to slow it down [hence
'appropriate pre-treatment'] and (b) the graph shows the SG was pretty
stable for a month or so. I took a considered judgement on it remaining
stable and it did. In fact I just found half a dozen bottles of the
self same cider now 7 years on lurking in the back of my storage shed
and the SG is just 1.010, so it only lost 6 degrees of gravity in bottle
and it sparkles nicely, which was just the result intended.
I accept that my remarks may appear somewhat contradictory but the fact
remains that cider bottled at SG 1.015 *could* become a bomb, and I have
seen it happen. Until a person has some experience of this and the
variables involved, and unless they have good information that it is
likely to remain stable then my advice always errs on the side of
caution. Not knowing enough about other people's specific practices
makes it unwise to do anything else. For instance, if a wine yeast and
added nutrients had been used for the cider in question, bottling at SG
1.015 could be a very dangerous proposition. What I do myself and what I
recommend others to do are not necessarily the same thing!
Andrew Lea
PS Please don't anyone take my website as a Gospel. More of an
Apocrypha (not to be taken as canonical or authoritative!)
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Cider books
From: "Alex Hill" <alex@vigoltd.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:46:09 +0100
Dear Dick,
As suggested, I have sent a list of all the books concerning
cider/perry/juice that we currently stock. I hope this helps. Printed matter
postage to the USA is not expensive, as indicated in my previous message.
We're working on the wesite and new catalogue but please don't hold your breath.
Best regards,
Alex Hill
[Janitor's note: Alex sent me a Word doc. I've extracted (below) a summary
from that document of titles/authors/prices of the books available from
Vigo.]
Real Cider Making on a Small Scale: Pooley & Lomax. Price £5.95
Cider, Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider: Annie Proulx & Lew
Nichols. Price £11.99
Cider - The Forgotten Miracle: James Crowden. Price £12.95
A Somerset Pomona - the cider apples of Somerset: Liz Copas. Price £12.50
Cider and Juice Apples: Growing and Processing: edited by R R Williams.
Price £5.00
Growing Cider Apples: R Umpelby & L Copas. Price £12.50
Common Ground Book of Orchards. Price £18.95
Perry Pears: edited by L C Luckwill & A Pollard. Price £25.00
Science and Fruit: edited by T Wallace & R W Marsh. Price £25.00
------------------------------
Subject: Cider tasting event
From: "Spencer Moore" <spencer.moore@dupliguard.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:22:03 -0700
I'm fairly new to this group so I hope this is an appropriate posting.
I'm holding a cider tasting in the Portland, Oregon area in early October.
I'm looking for three or four experienced cidermakers to enter their wares.
It's really more of a party than a contest, though there will be tasting and
judging of ciders. There will also be good things to eat and interesting
people to talk to. The event was an auction item for my kids' school; there
won't be any charge, though, for cidermakers who enter their own cider.
It should be a fun event. Anyone interested in coming?
Thanks.
Spencer Moore
spencer.moore@dupliguard.com
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Press
From: "Lori And Jeff Dutter" <cdsinc@excel.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:59:19 -0500
Can anyone tell me if there is something special I should do to my old cast
Iron grinder on my press. Do I need to coat the grinder with anything. I was
under the impression that apples should not come into contact with iron.
The whole assembly is cast iron- inside and out. Also what is the best method
of coating the wood base that the juice will flow out on? I've rebuilt this
old press and it's going to work great- now I just need to put these
finishing touches on it and I'm ready for fall. Thanks
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End of Cider Digest #1247
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