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Cider Digest #1178
Subject: Cider Digest #1178, 15 November 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1178 15 November 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Apple Yield ("McGonegal, Charles")
kiwi/apple ("Darlene Hanson / Darcy Wardrop")
Taste Expectations ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
I forgot! Fourth annual Cider makers forum in Virginia on the 20th ("John...)
RE: Cider Digest #1177, 11 November 2004 ("Stephen Berman")
Lament for cider/Old Cider Books.. ("chris horn")
dry mustard (samuel billing)
kiwi cider ("Darlene Hanson / Darcy Wardrop")
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Subject: Apple Yield
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:02:32 -0600
I'll throw my hat in on the empiricist side. Grow it and find out. Plan(t)
experiments that will take centuries to implement! But the
chemist/statistics geek in me loves to look at the numbers, too.
If we look at apple yield by cultivar, and find that the standard deviation
of our study is bigger than the mean - can we still get an idea of
comparative yields?
For instance, do any of the existing compilations of yields include sundry
dessert apples? Say, Golden Delicious. Most of use may not prefer it for
cider, but I think it's widely planted enough that you could find a local
grower(s) to ask what's typical for the region. I've been told that
Calvados growers in France are ripping out their heirloom orchards and
planting Gold Delicious. So there's a region with [past tense?] a wealth of
cider apples to compare against a common standard.
It would be nice to identify 3-4 standard varieties to use for comparison.
Low, Medium, High yields, and maybe one prone to alternation.
Hurray for non-parametric statistics!
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: kiwi/apple
From: "Darlene Hanson / Darcy Wardrop" <d_hanson@oberon.ark.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:15:30 -0800
Today I ground up aprox 100lbs of Belle du Bosccoop apples with about 25lbs
of kiwi fruit,and pressed them out. Now I have about 5gal of juice. So far
so good . To morrow I will put the yeast to it. Darcy. Campbell River
------------------------------
Subject: Taste Expectations
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:29:06 -0800
Charles has a good question, does cider taste like apples? Well in my
opinion yes and no. I taste and smell apples as they grow, are crushed,
juiced and fermented. At each stage the perception is a bit different but
the apple is there. This is not an experience most people will have. There
is a transformation which takes place during fermentation which I believe
captures the apple essence but not in the way that the fruit or the fresh
juice taste does. In my mind it is sort of like string theory, all this
bound up energy which is turned inside out, totally different from its
perceived nature. It is complex.
Sometimes its a bit disappointing, the aroma is great but the taste is does
not live up to what your nose tells you. So maybe this is the key, our nose
tells one thing our taste another. The idea of having people taste the
apples is a really great idea. We have done it successfully on several
occasions in our fall presentations on cider. Start with a Sweet Chopin and
end with a full Bittersweet like a Villbrie and you can really get the
audiences imagination going on how a cider should taste. This is where the
science ends and the art begins.
------------------------------
Subject: I forgot! Fourth annual Cider makers forum in Virginia on the 20th
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@tseassoc.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:00:00 -0500
Charlotte Shelton hosts it at her place below Charlottesville.
Saturday, November 20th, we're definitely going, See the pointer below
....
jccampb
http://www.vintagevirginiaapples.com/cidermaking.htm
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1177, 11 November 2004
From: "Stephen Berman" <stephenberman804@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:44:15 -0600
Regarding the Cider Festival, you might be interested to know that around
Bloomington, Indiana, there are also annual Apple Festivals. The apples of
Indiana are not consumer quality, but make good Apple Butter, and possibly
are fit for good Cider. I had a rollicking good time at one such festival
in about Fall, 1988. I'm sure they are still going on.
Perhaps they can be introduced to real, fermented Cider?
------------------------------
Subject: Lament for cider/Old Cider Books..
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:54:29 -0800
>
>Oh my word Dick ... where did you see the books? The old research center?
>jccampb
>
>cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> > On a recent vacation, I had the privilege to see several old English
>books on cider...celebrating the apple, noting the particular high quality
>to which the best cider may aspire, and such.
For what it's worth... In terms of old cider books... When I was at Oregon
State University, (about 10 years ago) I found that they had a number of old
French cider books. There were like 4-6 of them written between like 1750
and 1900. I can't read French but I had them pulled out of the rare book
stack and I sat and flipped trough them. I found that no one had pulled
them from the stacks in decades.... There was no way they were letting
them out of that room (like someone was watching me as I paged through them)
so I really don't think that anyone out there could ILL (inter-Lib. Loan).
They were neat. Some one must of donated them as a collection years and
years ago....
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon USA
'What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent of what I have seen in
darkness.'
M. C. Escher
------------------------------
Subject: dry mustard
From: samuel billing <samuelfromme@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 05:34:15 -0800 (PST)
hello all
was pressing out a few gallons of cider out last weekend when an old friend
of mine stopped by and said he remembers that his long lost uncle used to
put dry mustard in his cider. he couldn't remember when or how much he
put in other than he didn't think it was more than a few tablespoons in
a 55 gal. barrel,but said it still tasted of apples and still had quite
a bite when it finished fermenting.I put about 1/4 teaspoon of mustard in
a 5 gal. pail of juice just to see what happens.has anyone ever heard of
this being done, and how much and when?
thanks
Sam
------------------------------
Subject: kiwi cider
From: "Darlene Hanson / Darcy Wardrop" <d_hanson@oberon.ark.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:26:04 -0800
Racked the kiwi/apple cider from the primary to the secondary today. Could
not help but to have a taste . Was surprized at how good it tasted. Darcy
Wardrop
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End of Cider Digest #1178
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