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Cider Digest #1190
Subject: Cider Digest #1190, 4 January 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1190 4 January 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
apple juice source in San Francisco Bay Area (was: Re: Cider apples) (Robe...)
using all the apple (Dick Dunn)
Re:Apple Varities for cider. (Tim Bray)
RE: Cider Digest #1189, 31 December 2004 ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
RE: Cider Apples (Larry Gianakis)
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Subject: apple juice source in San Francisco Bay Area (was: Re: Cider apples)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm@hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:17:41 -0800
Hi Mark,
I live over the hills in Richmond and recently started a cyser from
Gravenstein juice that I got a Trader Joe's. Their website lists two
stores in Concord, but none in Walnut Creek. They've got three varieties
of unfiltered, nonpreserved (albeit pasteurized) juices for sale.
Gravenstein and something simply labeled as "apple" in gallon jugs and a
smaller bottle. And yesterday I noticed they had Gala in the smaller
bottle too.
While I can't tell you from personal experience how it'll turn out, one
of the guys at a local brew shop says he's been using the Gravenstein
for a while and its turned out very well!
Sorry, but I can't help you on which variety to grow. We've got the
usual dwarf eating variaties growing here (red delicious, golden
delicious, banana and something else, and bartlett).
Hope that helps!
Robert
Mark wrote:
>...One last question, Does anyone near the SF Bay area have cider apple juice
>or pear juice, other than Bartlett to sell?
------------------------------
Subject: using all the apple
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:34:21 -0700 (MST)
elderkinsapples@accesswave.ca wrote in the last Cider Digest:
>I am interested in using all the apple for cider rether than just the pressed
> juice. what is the procedure to break down the ground apples in say a 45
> gallon barrel and to ferment to cider.
This comes up on the digest now and then. The gist of the answer seems to
be that you can do it but you're likely letting yourself in for more work
than you want...i.e., it would be easier to press the juice and ferment it
than to ferment the crushed apples and extract the cider.
(That said, there are cidermakers who have very successfully used what they
call a "pomace fermentation".)
Maybe it would help us to understand: What's your objection to using just
the juice?
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re:Apple Varities for cider.
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:55:34 -0800
Mark Johnson asked:
>My questions are what cider apple varities do well in Northern California?
Most of them. We have such a congenial climate, the only ones that have
not performed well for me are those that require longer chill times. I
have given up on Harry Masters Jersey, Stoke Red, Bedan, and Noel Des
Champs. I'm keeping the Binet Rouge, as they have started producing, but
they are weak growers.
The best performers for me, so far, have been the russets (Golden Russet,
Roxbury Russet, and Ashmead's Kernel). All of these are vigorous, and the
Roxburies are extremely precocious and productive (at least on
M106). Also Yarlington Mill, Muscat de Bernay, and Porter's Perfection
are doing well, though not as vigorous as the russets. All these are mid-
to late-season. MdB is precocious, productive, and tends to an upright
growth habit, so can be planted a little more densely than the others.
Early- to mid-season varieties that do well for me are Whitney, Hewe's
Virginia Crab, Kingston Black, Sweet Coppin, Taylor's, Fillbarrel, and
Wickson. Muscadet de Dieppe is early too, but of the 5 trees I have only
two are really doing well, and it seems very scab-susceptible. Sweet
Coppin is very late to leaf and bloom, but sets a good crop anyway -
apparently it is self-fertile!
You'll need to consider your soil and space requirements to decide on a
rootstock. MM111 does really well in Northern CA, but is slow to start
producing. MM106 performs well in my sandy light soil and seems to
encourage early production, which however stunts growth... G30 is also
excellent, very fast early growth and good branching structure.
I'm on the Mendocino coast, Sunset zone 16 or 17 - very mild climate. In
Walnut Creek I think you will get even better production, and higher sugar
contents* from the hotter summers. But you will have to irrigate carefully
as well.
*maybe - my juice came in at 1.066 - 1.070 this year! Pretty strong stuff.
Cheers,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1189, 31 December 2004
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:10:37 -0800
>Here is my question. Most of the apple varieties discussed in this
>newsletter don't seem to be available around here and I don't have a
>domain large enough for an orchard. Do these "cider" apple varieties
>make a superior cider to a Cortland?
I think this is a great question and hope we get a bit of discussion on this
subject. Being a closet anglophile of course I think that "real" cider is
made from "real" cider apples. Seriously, excellent cider is made from a
variety of apples. Not being familiar with Cortland cider I cannot comment
on how different the ciders would be. I would shy away from making a single
variety cider from most apple varieties, rather try to get a juice blend
that contains the necessary sugar, acidity and tannin.
I realize that finding tannic apples is a challenge and this is what sets a
cider made with bittersharp and bittersweet apples apart. Apart but not
necessarily better. I think that the tannic apples gives the cider a better
mouth feel, a lingering taste that says have a bit more. Looking at the
awards given at this years North American Cider Competition, only about half
the award winners were give to ciders made with cider apples. The ciders
made from non-cider varieties were excellent and a tribute to the craft of
those cidermakers who make cider with what they have.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Apples
From: Larry Gianakis <lgianakis@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 04:17:38 -0800 (PST)
Mark
Farnum Hills is a cider producer from NH that makes cider from "true cider
apples." The way that I look at it, they are making true English cider, you
are making true New England Cider.
I think that by making cider with the apples around you you are making a
cider "true" to your region.
Farnum hills cider is excellent, it is made from true english cider apples.
They grow their apples at poverty lane orchards and you may get a limited
amount of apples for cider, however my understanding is that the cider
apples go to the cider production. The web site said that you can buy
it in Freeport at: Royal River Natural Foods, 207/865-0046
at 443 Rte.1, 04032.
their web site is:http://www.farnumhillciders.com/index.html
Nashoba winery is in bolton, MA and I am not sure if they ship, but they
sell a cider that is very good as well.
Larry
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End of Cider Digest #1190
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