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Cider Digest #1175
Subject: Cider Digest #1175, 6 November 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1175 6 November 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Belt presses in the US (Mike Faul)
Belt Presses (Bruce Dunlop)
Fusel-Solvent Flavor ("Harrison Gibbs")
Perry (CircusGimp@aol.com)
light brown scum / crust over foam 2 ("Diane Gagnon")
Re: Opinions, experience from the Cider Digest readership (Dick Dunn)
RE: squeezebox press ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Gwatkin cider/perry in US? (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Re: Belt presses in the US
From: Mike Faul <carraig@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:52:41 -0800
Dick et al,
the Voran presses are sold out of Canada for the US market. I can put
you in touch with the distributor if you like.
The prices are super high with $30K being on the low end. And that is
just for the press. There is the whole system you could get :-) The
washer and crusher is another EUR 10,780
The price for the Voran Single Belt 1200 press is about EUR 58,500
(thats Euros) The dollar vs the Euro is a huge factor there.
Mike
> Subject: Re: Belt presses in the US
> From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:08:15 -0700
>
> In CD 1172, I noted several cidermakers in the UK going to belt presses
> recently. In CD 1173, several notes indicated that belt presses are
> already common, but seemingly for larger producers.
>
> I'd heard that belt presses had been around for some time but had various
> problems that might have prevented more widespread adoption.
>
> Also, the notes in CD 1173 pointed out the substantial cost--twice, mention
> of around $30K US. Having had a look at the Voran web site (thanks to Mike
> Faul for the link, and by the way Voran is Austrian as the link indicates,
> not German as I'd said in my original note, duh) there's a complete line
> of these presses, spanning an order of magnitude through-put. So where
> does the $30K figure apply? (And is that delivered in the US? As I said,
> these things are heavy!)
------------------------------
Subject: Belt Presses
From: Bruce Dunlop <bruce@lopezislandfarm.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:31:46 -0800
I have been using a Fronteir Technology belt press model J-50 for several
years now. It is a wonderful unit and does a good job. This model can do
about 1000 lb of apples per hour with 2 people. A little more equipment for
feeding apples to the mill and one person could operate it. This was the
smallest unit, 12 inch belt, they made and I think it may be discontinued.
The next size up has about twice the capacity and is in the $20-$30,000
price range, however they are available on the used market. They are very
rugged industrial unit and are designed to run forever.
Yours in cider
Bruce
Bruce Dunlop
Lopez Island Farm
360-468-4620
fax 360-468-3941
www.lopezislandfarm.com
------------------------------
Subject: Fusel-Solvent Flavor
From: "Harrison Gibbs" <rharrisong@lycos.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:22:26 -0500
Most of my ciders have a strong fusel-solvent flavor. It is a strong "hot"
alcohol flavor. I have used liquid "cider" yeasts, dry wine yeast, and
liquid "beer" yeast all to little avail. It also does not matter whether
I use store pressed sweet cider or press my own. This is not a problem
in my beer, wine or mead. Does anyone know where this flavor comes from,
and if so how do I reduce it?
Harrison Gibbs
Williamsburg, VA
------------------------------
Subject: Perry
From: CircusGimp@aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:32:54 EST
On that perry,,,
Ive made plenty of perry,,, and plenty of fermented perry,,, ive never
smelled anything cheesy,, it always smells more like cider than anything..
Youve got to have some contamination going on....
S. Adams..
Brewer, Winemaker, Meadmaker, Heartbreaker--- Doylestown, Ohio
------------------------------
Subject: light brown scum / crust over foam 2
From: "Diane Gagnon" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 15:19:46 -0500
Juice used is from centrifugal extraction ( Breville juicer ) ( russet,
gala, golden delicious )
yeast : lalvin 1118
Crust is light brown, covering surface ( 50% ) with 1/4 - 1/2 inch
diameter parcels ,forming at the beginning ,when yeast multiplication is
proceeding . Then it dissolve back when fermentation start up.
It looks like the crust forming in beer making with concentrate kit,
which do recommend to remove because of bitter taste contamination
Fermentation is processed in a carboy and last 7-9 days at ambiant
temperature.
Question is : what is this crust-scum floating a day or two, and should
it be removed ? I did fermentation with commercially pressed juice and
same phenomena occured. Did not find any info from litterature, the web
etc.
Denis Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Opinions, experience from the Cider Digest readership
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:21:50 -0700 (MST)
"John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@tseassoc.com> wrote:
> In another year, year and a half, I'm expecting to have enough apples to
> do something with myself as opposed to the outsourcing of juice (and
> fruit) I've done for several years now. The on-going problem I'm having
> is that I can't even seem to garner even an opinion from the various and
> sundry tree suppliers...[del]... as to potential
> "output" of the trees I've bought from them over the years. All good
> Nurseries, all good stock but not much assistance in helping me get a
> handle on what comes next.
I've found that if people a lot smarter than me don't have an answer,
either I'm asking the wrong question or I'm asking it in the wrong way.
> The reason I pose these questions is that I need to gauge the scale of
> my juice processing equipment and cool storage space, and have been
> trying for quite a while to 'gestimate' the impending apple 'yields' of
> my orchard...
There are gross rules of thumb for annual yield--1 bushel for dwarf, a few
for semi-dwarf, 10 or more for standard. I assume you've seen those.
How much more can you expect? There's an awful lot of variables, and they
all interact. Nobody else is going to know how your specific soil type and
microclimate affect the output. Weather for a particular year is a
combination of several variables, and actually they're all profiles--for
example, not just the average or extrema of temperature, or of rainfall,
but the day-to-day variations and correspondence. E.g., a cool wet period
followed by a hot dry period is not the same as cool/dry followed by warm
rains, even though both might have the same overall averages.
There's rootstock, cultivar, precipitation, humidity, soil drainage,
temperature, sunshine, air drainage, winter chill, soil type / nutrients /
pH, land slope, pollinators...the longer I think about it the more variables
I come up with, until my hair hurts. And again, they ALL interact, but how?
Maybe a boron deficiency will drastically reduce the yield of Yarlington
Mill on M-7 in high-pH clay loam in a high-humidity, hot year! But who
could possibly know?
As Jeremy said, "Be empirical!"
What else can you do?
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: RE: squeezebox press
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 15:39:37 -0800
Yes, Westcott Bay has a X6 "squeezebox" style press from Goodnature
Industries with the standard "shredder" for crushing the fruit. The shredder
works fine with dessert apples, but often jams up with many of the cider
apple varieties we process. The motor was upgraded to a variable speed with
some success. Goodnature now offers a hammer mill for the X6 as an upgrade.
The press is fine for a small cider making operation. It is easy to load and
unload and one person can run the entire wash, shred and press operation.
Yields average 13-14 lbs per gallon. On the down side, the production is
about 30 gallons an hour. A good day is 150-180 gallons with setup and
cleanup time factored in. On some of the really mellow fruit, the cloth bags
jam up and it gets pretty messy and slows production. This type of fruit
needs to be combined with a more forgiving variety to speed things up.
------------------------------
Subject: Gwatkin cider/perry in US?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:53:02 -0700
About a year ago (at last year's Franklin County Cider Day, in fact) there
was a distributor touting the idea that Gwatkin's cider and perry would
soon be available in the US. Did it ever happen? Has anybody out there
seen any of it?
Gwatkin is a UK (Herefordshire) producer. I hold no brief for the merits
of importing any particular UK product; the interest here was really that
it's a small, relatively traditional producer, which is to say not a
Strongbow, and so it could be of interest either on its own merits or as
a general test of the market.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1175
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