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Cider Digest #1234
Subject: Cider Digest #1234, 21 June 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1234 21 June 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: Cider Digest #1233, 17 June 2005 ("Andrew & Sue Clarke")
Re: Direct Shipment of Wine to California ("Gary Awdey")
Cider Statistics (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1233, 17 June 2005
From: "Andrew & Sue Clarke" <theclarke5@btopenworld.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:42:02 +0100
John,
I partly agree with Andrew although my trees are on seedling rootstock
and my location is slightly different. I have 12 Fredericks on seedling
rootstock growing as traditional standards in my cider Orchard in the
Forest of Dean (2.5 acres), ancestral home of the Frederick (100 miles
west of Andrew). They are developing as very upright trees, limited
spurring and quite tall compared to other varieties on same rootstock of
similar age. They are quite majestic at 4 years of age although still
1-2 years off bearing. Seem to be doing very well on my old red
sandstone soils (low nutrient ancient pasture) slightly acidic and
iron/mineral rich. This maybe the difference between me and Andrew whom
I believe (maybe wrong!) is on a much more calcareous (higher pH) soil.
I also doughnut mulch them every year around this time to help with
moisture and weed suppression which seems to do them good. Growth is
strong and vigorous (not so much thin and whippy but very upright) with
limited leaf growth on main stems and spurs. Sorry can't tell you what
fruit is like yet but looking forward to them fruiting!
Andrew Clarke
Woodlands Organics
Forest of Dean
Subject: Frederick
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:20:57 +0100
John Gasbarre wrote:
> Are there any list members who are growing an English cider apple
> called Frederick? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about it
> (disease resistance, annual/biennial bearing, fruit characteristics,
> productivity, precocity, etc.) as well as potentially buying a bit
> of scionwood for this coming Winter. Please let me know. Thanks.
I am growing a couple of Fredericks on MM106 here in Central Southern
England (its origin is in Monmouthshire about 100 miles to the West).
My orchard is about 15 years old. It is without doubt the most unruly
tree I have ever come across! I grow it nominally in centre leader
format but the branches break all over the place at very odd angles, so
it needs a lot of work to keep it under control. The wood is quite thin
and whippy. It is in effect a tip-bearer (or, if you like, the spurs
are about 6 inches long and very thin!). It has very large and quite
rounded and reflexed leaves, pretty distinct from most other cider trees
I grow. I planted it because it was once a recommended UK 'vintage'
variety not because it's easy to grow.! As regards pest and diseases it
is very susceptible to Brown Rot (Monilinia) and the fruits frequently
rot on the tree before they are ripe and can be harvested. When it was
young it was a very light cropper and nearly every fruit succumbed in
this way. As it has become more mature this feature seems to be less
prevalent than it was and now I can get reasonably good crops in
alternate years (it is totally biennial with me). Yield is less (maybe
only half?) than would be expected from say Dabinett of similar size.
The fruit is still prone to rot in store, however, so it needs
processing very quickly after harvest. The apple is small and
red-flushed to dark wine-red and very aromatic with yellow flesh and it
is reputed to make a good light single variety cider although I have never
tried this. The juice on its own is excellently flavoured though. It
is a 'sharp' cultivar and I know from biochemical work I did at Long
Ashton many years ago that it lacks most of the catechin based 'tannins'
which are found in most other cider cultivars. Maybe this is why it's
so rot susceptible. There is a fruit picture on my website under <Cider
Apple Pictures> from the menu bar.
For several years when they were young I despaired of them being any value
to me (light cropping and rot propensity) but in recent years they have
become a little better-behaved and I am quite pleased to have them to add
to my overall cider blend. I nearly got rid of them at one stage but
I'm glad I relented. Definitely a grower's nightmare, though. Probably
would be much more successful as a traditional standard than as any form
of dwarf tree.
Hope this helps.
Andrew Lea
- - --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Direct Shipment of Wine to California
From: "Gary Awdey" <gawdey@att.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:13:36 -0400
For anyone interested in the ongoing evolution of laws pertaining to direct
shipment, you can track the progress of a SB118 in California, introduced in
January of this year and now amended to something entirely unlike the
orginal bill (one might detect the not-so-subtle influences of well-funded
lobbying by the established distribution interests). It is now back in
committee where it wouldn't be entirely surprising if it dies an ignominious
death now that it has been sufficiently poisoned. The bill can be found at
http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/Bills/SB_118. The tabbed view allows you to
view the changes in the bill easily. In a nutshell for those who are
time-constrained, the bill began as something allowing direct shipment to
California residents from states that permit similar shipment from
California. In the current amended form it would seem to threaten all
direct-shipment retail business by imposing a two case per month seller
limit (the words "per purchaser" are conspicuously absent but maybe I'm
reading this too literally). For out-of-state estate wineries the
requirements are onerous. If I understand this correctly any legal shipment
to California would involve getting a California direct shipper's permit AND
a California seller's permit, using special direct-shipping package
labeling, shipping by a signature-required method (adding to the cost),
collecting California tax as if the point of sale was in California,
submitting summary data for the year to the California ABC no later than
January 31, and the opening the records of the direct seller's records to
the California ABC for audit. If this becomes the model for other states
to follow just imagine how likely you would be to find wines and ciders from
small family operations in other states available to you.
Gary Awdey
Eden, NY
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Statistics
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:39:07 +0100
John Brett wrote:
> any sources for this kind of information. Any similar info for Britain
> and Europe would also be welcome.
>
Some info for the UK is available on the NACM website. See
http://www.cideruk.com/ You will have to scan the site a bit but there
are some figures under 'Cider Publications - Stastistics'. For Europe
there is minimal data at the AICV website http://www.aicv.org/ which
used to show a country by country breakdown but doesn't seem to any
more. I don't know any coherent source of artisanal / craft production
data for the UK or various European countries. Perhaps members of this
list who are 3CCPA or SWCA members could help. Everyone 'knows' that in
the UK craft cidermaking is increasing, but in volume terms the amounts
are probably tiny (< 10%) compared to total sales of 500M litres pa..
90% of which is known to be generated by just the half dozen larger
operations (NACM data). In France I have been told that 'artisanal'
production amounts to around 15-20% of total French production which is
around 100M litres p.a.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
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End of Cider Digest #1234
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