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Cider Digest #1173
Subject: Cider Digest #1173, 29 October 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1173 29 October 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Voran Press/Mill (Mike Faul)
Perry aromas ("Michael L. Hall")
Belt press (Cornelius Traas)
Belt presses in the US ("McGonegal, Charles")
cider text for Cider Digest ("drcath@tiac.net")
RE: wet press cloths (JASON EDWARD MILLS)
brown crust over foam : to be removed or not ("Diane Gagnon")
How soon after grinding to press? (Larry Gianakis)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Voran Press/Mill
From: Mike Faul <carraig@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:37:58 -0700
I think this is the machine you are talking about. I'll be geting one
for next years harvest.
http://www.voran.at/obstverarbeitung/113_siebbandpressen_ebp1200_E.htm
Mike
Red Branch Cider Co.
(and Rabbit's Foot Meadery)
>
> Subject: presses for the new millennium
> From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:10:24 -0600 (MDT)
>
>
> The presses are made by Voran (Germany); the ones we saw were imported
> by Vigo (UK). Has anyone seen these "stateside"? I'm really curious to
> know how much they cost (esp after getting to the US)...they're pretty
> much all stainless, and not light. I think the smallest one is some 500
> kg.
>
------------------------------
Subject: Perry aromas
From: "Michael L. Hall" <Mike.Hall@POBox.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:09:03 -0600
I had a few pears last year (Bradford & some Asian) and I pressed
them to make a perry. There wasn't much juice, but I put it in
the bottom of a 5-gallon carboy and let it go with its own wild
yeast. I've had good luck with my ciders doing this for many
years now.
There wasn't much juice, about half a gallon or so. It sat in the
carboy undisturbed for about a year, and developed a surface film,
like a flor sherry yeast. I recently racked it away from the surface
film into a 1-gallon jug, and in a few days it developed the surface
film again.
Now here's the strange part: The smell of the perry is not vinegary,
alcoholic or even very pearlike. It smells like cheese. Like a strong,
hearty, pungent cheese. Maybe a strong cheddar or bleu. A friend, who
is not a judge, called the smell a cheese smell also without any
prompting from me.
I've done a little googling and haven't found a relationship between
perry and cheesy smells. I don't know much about what a proper
perry should be like. Is this perry horribly bad, or is it worth
keeping? I don't have a lot tied up in this -- about half a gallon.
Is using wild yeast a bad idea for perry? There's still time to
change my next batch.
Any input appreciated.
Cheers,
- -Mike
============================================================================
Michael L. Hall, Ph.D.
Mtn/NW Representative, BJCP Board of Directors:
<mailto:Mtn_NW_Rep@BJCP.org> <http://www.BJCP.org/>
Member, AHA Board of Advisors:
<mailto:MichaelHall@AOB.org> <http://www.BeerTown.org/>
President, Los Alamos Atom Mashers:
<mailto:AM_President@YahooGroups.com> <http://hbd.org/atommash>
============================================================================
Life isn't all beer and skittles; few of us have touched a skittle in
years. -- Edna St. Vincent Millay
------------------------------
Subject: Belt press
From: Cornelius Traas <con.traas@theapplefarm.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:34:20 +0100
Belt presses have been widely used on the European Continent for quite
a while, and also in the UK. Voran certainly make some of the best that
I have seen. Juice yields are good, and use is straightforward.
However, having spoken to some Dutch juice-makers, I am also aware of
some problems. Principal among these is that the solids seem to have a
different size than those where a rack and cloth is used. The result of
this, for juice-makers, is that a cloudy juice can end up with too much
settled sediment. However, for someone who is only interested in making
cider, this should not be a problem. These machines are expensive
however ($30,000 and upwards if I remember correctly), and even the
smallest ones have a capacity of 100 gallons per hour, so they are only
really a viable proposition for industrial or semi-industrial
manufacturers.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Moorstown
Cahir
Co. Tipperary
Ireland
www.theapplefarm.com
------------------------------
Subject: Belt presses in the US
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:43:51 -0500
Dick, I've seen belt presses in any serious cider production here in the
Midwest. I'm surprised more people _don't_ have them. I think there are at
least three US manufacturers - because our orchard manager had brochures
from two of them, and I know of another in Michigan.
The small ones seem to do 150-200 gallons an hour from a unit that barely
takes up more space than our home-built 28" rack and cloth. Last winter I
was able to take a close look at Mike Beck's operation north of Lansing, MI.
He had his unit on a raised work platform - essentially on top of the
storage tank room - so that apples came out of the flume (how you wash
apples is another thread altogether), elevatored up to the presses, were
pressed, and the dry pomace simply fell out off the end of the press, over
the side of the platform and into a waiting wagon. One person can operate it
at that production level. The cleanup time he gave was comparable to our
rack-and-cloth press.
At Kickapoo orchard a bit northwest of me, here in Wisconsin, they also have
a belt press. I think their's might be a bit bigger. They note that their
press has problems with mixes of different apple cultivars. If they run one
at a time, they don't have to keep adjusting the belt tension. I think Mr.
Beck's press was self adjusting. Belt presses can (but don't have to)
produce more sediment in the cider. Not necessarily a big deal for
fermenters. Both the operations I know say they tend to run about 3.5
gal/bushel. Not as high as our max (4 gal/bu) but pretty close to our
average (about 3.7)
Since the presses cost about $30k (give or take), the places producing a few
tens of thousands of gallons a year have gone to the belt presses. Places
that run a few thousands to about twenty thousand gallons seem to have rack
and cloth presses.
As a side note, I seem to recall that all the US cidermakers at Terra Madre
were using rack and cloth presses.
There's a 'squeezebox' type of press, too. Kind of like a horizontally
mounted rack and cloth press. They seem rare - but are out there.
------------------------------
Subject: cider text for Cider Digest
From: "drcath@tiac.net" <drcath@tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:21:21 -0400
I am new to pressing my own cider, though I have made hard cider
successfully from sweet cider that I purchase locally every year. I am now
building a rack and cloth hydraulic press which should be finished in a
week or two in time to try it with some of this year's crop.
As a chemist, I can't help the desire to maximize yield and efficiency. Is
a pressing aid such as rice hulls something that small roadsiders and
backyarders use regularly or only at the big commercial cider mills? If so,
what is the percentage increase in yield with rice hulls in the pomace
compared to without?
Also, what is the best way to use diatomaceous earth for filtering hard
cider prior to bottling? Is gravity sufficient, or is pressure or vaccuum
required? I have Celite brand, Food Chemical Codex grade that I can use.
Thank you for your expertise!
Regards,
Dave Catherman
So. Glastonbury, CT
------------------------------
Subject: RE: wet press cloths
From: JASON EDWARD MILLS <jemills2@students.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:19:13 -0500
Subject: Cider Pressing Cloths
From: "Bob Capshew" <rcapshew@epowerc.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:03:04 -0400
I use cotton cloth from Army surplus powder bag material to hold pommace
from apples and pears. The apples/pears are ground through a "garbage"
disposal then the cheeses are built in about 2" depths. Polyethelene
plates separate the cheeses and a bottle jack is used for pressure.
The system works well but I am trying to understand why the wet
(reused) press cloths do not allow as much juice to flow as the
dry cloths do. I would like to reuse the cloths to save on cleaning.
Is there a physics rule that I am missing?
Bob Capshew
Regarding the increased difficulty of using wet cloths-
When trying to force liquid through holes you are working against the
cohesive forces of water, which produce surface tension. The smaller
the holes, the more difficult it will be to push water through -- or air
depending on your perspective. When trying to use wet press cloth you
are working against the surface tension of thousands of tiny beads of
liquid.
Jason Mills
------------------------------
Subject: brown crust over foam : to be removed or not
From: "Diane Gagnon" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:39:47 -0400
During first stage fermentation when foam appears , a brown crust forms
over this foam, should it be removed like in beer making ( bitter taste
) or let it dissolve back in ? gagnond@endirect.qc.ca
------------------------------
Subject: How soon after grinding to press?
From: Larry Gianakis <lgianakis@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
I am a true rookie. I have had my press for about two weeks. I made
my first batch of cider last weekend. I read that you should grind the
apples and let them sit for a period of time before pressing. Does anyone
have recomendations on how long to wait. I was afraid to wait too long
so I just waited until the end of the quarter of the patriots game.
I live in massachusetts and the end of the season is rolling around, I plan
to press another three or four 6 gallon batches before the season is over.
So if anyone has any words of wisdom, it would be greatly appreciated.
Also as a side note, I will be ordering some apple trees in december/january
and would like to know if anyone has any recomendations of varieties good
for cidering.
Thanks
Larry Gianakis
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1173
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